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Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#281

Post by perl4ever »

ibudiallo wrote: post #107

Hey everyone, author here. It seems like this post have been flagged, but I'd like to add a little comment here so it may clarify things. First, a little over a week ago we were having a similar discussion here [1] and I promised I'd post my article about it. This is the article. Second, I want people to understand that this is a complex issue and the solution might/should be as complex. It's not a case of, OK let's…

>you immediately notice that black people aren't there

Black people in the US disproportionately live in the south-east. And they have IT jobs there. You can work where a whole department has one white guy if that.

I'm not patronizing you by saying you should go do that, or that you would find it tolerable there; just that it's easy to get carried away making universal statements about how things are.

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#282

Post by anonytrary »

UncleMeat wrote: post #280
anonytrary wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the best talent or opportunity isn't in the southeast, then companies won't go there, so I think it's not as simple as "just open your office in the southeast". Companies are distributed closer to their relevant hubs. Like you said, people don't want to move, especially if it means taking loss in efficacy.

Then people need to give up on this "its a pipeline problem" argument, like tech companies have no capability of acquiring different pipelines.

It's not about the capability, it's about the switching cost. A business's cash flow is like their blood flow; they do things that bankrupt them, they die. You can't expect businesses to go bankrupt to perform a contrived move. There is an energy cost for every change.

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#283

Post by NikkiA »

forgot_user1234 wrote: post #148

I am really curious about brown people. How come Indians succeed in tech? Why do we have so many Indians in tech? if it's just the skin colour. Why do Indians in tech rise to the top. P.S. - Before you try to cancel me - I am not trying to start a flame war. I am curious about your explanation.

> How come Indians succeed in tech? Why do we have so many Indians in tech?

Because of IIT, mostly, it's been a hugely successful program in the last 60 years, that coupled with a culture that considers tech work 'valuable'. Then some of those IIT grads go abroad and bring the 'tech work is good work' ethos with them and raise 'second generation' kids with similar principles in their (now non-indian) educational system.

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#284

Post by zerr »

austhrow743 wrote: post #236
zerr wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't ask the first meal for free when you go to the restaurant, do you?

If I was looking to drop hundreds of thousands on a catering company, when the relationship could net them millions and millions over the future years, hell yes I'd expect samples to be part of the sales process.

CV is your free sample. If you order the full meal, prepare to pay for it.

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#285

Post by unishark »

numakerg wrote: post #120
ibudiallo wrote: post #107

Hey everyone, author here. It seems like this post have been flagged, but I'd like to add a little comment here so it may clarify things. First, a little over a week ago we were having a similar discussion here [1] and I promised I'd post my article about it. This is the article. Second, I want people to understand that this is a complex issue and the solution might/should be as complex. It's not a case of, OK let's…

Thank you for writing this. If there's at least one thing I hope everyone can agree is a positive, it's people sharing their perspectives like this. > look around the office, you immediately notice that black people aren't there. You're right, there aren't. One in ten people in my city is black, but I would estimate* fewer than one in forty developers at my work are. But there were just as few in my college classes,…

I teach at a university in STEM. Our classes are increasingly filled with international students precisely because domestic students are not interested in majoring in STEM. Schools actually hire agencies to try and increase their number of domestic applications, but they continually get worse anyway. It's a less-than-zero-sum game as the pool shrinks. In public schools there's even an explicit preference in state law for domestic students. And they put in rules like high verbal test score requirements that increase the domestic advantage yet more. Nonetheless we get more African students literally from Africa than we get African American applicants.

People are putting STEM on a pedestal (very) recently, then decrying why people weren't allowed into the FAANG/A.I./data science holy land that most in the field probably aren't profiting from anyway. But historically, jobs in STEM are not the highly-coveted prize people think it is. More of a lower-middle-class stepping stone that ranks below the more prestigious professions like medicine/law/etc. Harder work and harder classes for lower pay.

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#286

Post by numpad0 »

ben_w wrote: post #111
medee wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your statement is like claiming there is no scientific basis for family. Two people of the same race are more genetically related than half-siblings born to the same father and mothers of different races. The categories we call "race" are genetic clusters of populations who developed in different regions/environments. It's the level of taxonomy below species and above one's family. Overlap between these clusters does…

The exact point is that what is called “race” is a sociological sense isn’t based on meaningful generic clusters — saying someone’s (genetic cluster) race has a 1:1 mapping to skin colour is like saying their (genetic cluster) race has a 1:1 mapping to their hair colour.

From my eyes you guys differentiate on skin colors on offensive and use diversity card on defensive to further and further ingrain the notion that “others” has weirdly colored skins.

If all of western world would cut the BS and use something like “white asian non-christian” which is what “yellow” stands for in actuality, I can tolerate those racial elitism a bit better.

One might be tempted to say it’s not about skin tones, but people taught in white/black/yellow system tries to fit surface albedo of actual human beings to those visual wavelength responses out of cognitive dissonance, through pigmenting, cinematographic techniques or other technological means, or by verbally abusing creators, artists, races, cultures so I strongly believe accurate visual representations in the context of pure racism matters if it’s not going to completely entirely permanently disappear by tomorrow morning.

You guys hate it when we don’t look #FFFF00, like for real. That happens and that’s insulting.

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#287

Post by ben_w »

numpad0 wrote: post #286
ben_w wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The exact point is that what is called “race” is a sociological sense isn’t based on meaningful generic clusters — saying someone’s (genetic cluster) race has a 1:1 mapping to skin colour is like saying their (genetic cluster) race has a 1:1 mapping to their hair colour.

From my eyes you guys differentiate on skin colors on offensive and use diversity card on defensive to further and further ingrain the notion that “others” has weirdly colored skins. If all of western world would cut the BS and use something like “white asian non-christian” which is what “yellow” stands for in actuality, I can tolerate those racial elitism a bit better. One might be tempted to say it’s not about skin…

It sounds like you’re angrily agreeing with me, but I’m not sure.

Side point: I’m not American, and what you wrote reads like “you guys” means “white Americans” (I’m not sure which political block, if any, is implied); this impression is in part because in my experience only Americans say “in actuality”.

Re: Viewpoint: 'I feel like I was accidentally hired'

#288

Post by istjohn »

komali2 wrote: post #214
istjohn wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right to point out the absurdity of dividing the universe of people into two groups: white and non-white or white and "POC." But humans have evolved to be suspicious of those who aren't in their tribe, who are different. We are naturally xenophobic. We reflexively divide the world into "Them" and "Us." There are cultural cleavages like sexual orientation and religion that divide us, but in the US, skin color c…

I admire your way of engaging on this topic - it's much more civil and (imo) convincing than my way!

Thanks! I love how enthusiastically you engaged the wrong-headed comments on this article. I'm often tempted to roll my eyes and get on with my day, but I really do think it's important that these statements aren't allowed to go unchallenged as if they express conventional wisdom.
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