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Shopify Goes Digital by Default

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Re: Shopify Goes Digital by Default

#281

Post by trimbo »

cletus wrote: post #141

So I've now been WFH for 2 months and honestly I hate it. Work was already flexible enough such that if you wanted to WFH you could. By convention, people would most often WFH on Wednesdays. I liked this timing of people doing it at the same time. But communication and collaboration is just much harder work remote and you can't change my mind. I'm sure you can work hard to make it almost as good but it's never going…

This is the best summary of everything I've felt about it.

> I just don't think a company with 50,000+ employees can operate this way indefinitely.

The other thing is that those-sized companies have made significant real estate investments in their office space. If suddenly their own workforce didn't use them, what would the value of those be? I imagine e.g. Apple Park would not be worth even close to what Apple paid for it if Apple wasn't going to use it.

Re: Shopify Goes Digital by Default

#282

Post by edanm »

kjakm wrote: post #173
cletus wrote: post #141

So I've now been WFH for 2 months and honestly I hate it. Work was already flexible enough such that if you wanted to WFH you could. By convention, people would most often WFH on Wednesdays. I liked this timing of people doing it at the same time. But communication and collaboration is just much harder work remote and you can't change my mind. I'm sure you can work hard to make it almost as good but it's never going…

>> I of course miss the meals and snacks. I'm not trying to be facetious - you seriously can't provide your own meals and snacks working from home? >> Many people who work at these companies live in big cities where they don't have huge amounts of space and it's not conducive to being productivity, particularly if you live with other people, if you can't get some form of separation. Do you live in that space because…

I'm a pretty big foodie and love going to restaurants and trying new things.

That said, I've had catered lunches at Google when visiting friends, and that's way better than eating gum restaurants every day.

The decision fatigue is real. But also, there are relatively few options that are genuinely good in the area, especially if you're trying to eat somewhat healthy. You get very bored after a while. Lunches provided by an in house chef are very good, tend to be healthier, and more interesting. I think - like I said, I mostly ate a meal here and there.

(and if we're comparing to cooking at home, obviously that incurs greater time cost)

Re: Shopify Goes Digital by Default

#283

Post by newfeatureok »

pb7 wrote: post #277
newfeatureok wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you understand how privileged you sound? What percentage of employees do you think have free lunch from their employer?

What difference does it make if we're comparing apples to apples? I don't think a company that offers free lunch deciding whether to go fully remote or not has any effect on another that doesn't offer free lunch. Privilege or not doesn't make my opinion any more or less invalid.

My point is that "decision fatigue" is not a valid point to begin with since most people don't deal with such issues therefore it's not really relevant in the grand schemes of remote-first discussions.

Re: Shopify Goes Digital by Default

#284

Post by dang »

newfeatureok wrote: post #250
cletus wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not trying to be facetious - you seriously can't provide your own meals and snacks working from home? Of course I can but I just don't want to. This isn't about being cheap or lazy (although I'm guilty of both to varying degrees). The biggest benefit of having a catered office is the lack of having to make a decision about what to eat. I'll just eat what they're serving that day. I'm a big believer in decision…

So you don’t want remote first to become popular because you’re not capable of making decisions and want the company to make them for you?

"Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Also, can you please not post in the flamewar style to HN generally? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23261569 is another example. We're not here to cross-examine each other or make each other look bad. We're here for curious conversation and to learn.

Re: Shopify Goes Digital by Default

#285

Post by pb7 »

sammnaser wrote: post #273
pb7 wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They want to work for [Google|FB|Apple|...] and to do that they need to live in the Bay Area. This doesn't check out. All of those companies have large offices elsewhere. I agree with your take that you work in NYC because you want to live in NYC so that's where you work but your bias is showing that you can't consider that people feel similarly about the Bay Area. As one data point, I chose San Francisco when I had…

In my experience it's been extremely competitive to get a spot in the non Bay Area offices within FAANG. The New York and Seattle offices are generally highly sought after, and there are typically many, many less teams operating outside the Bay Area. You don't exactly get to choose, especially coming into a more junior position.

I think it's a pure numbers game. Smaller offices will have fewer open positions so there will be relatively more flow to the big offices and HQ. There also needs to be critical mass for a team to develop in a new location so you can't just be the first person on a team for a product that's centered somewhere else unless you're a very senior person. It's a bit less flexible and expansion tends to happen in waves.

Re: Shopify Goes Digital by Default

#286

Post by bytematic »

Axsuul wrote: post #14
GhostVII wrote: post #11

I really hope this doesn't become a bigger trend. Shopify was a company I was seriously considering working at in the future, but this would probably disqualify them. Working from home once a week sounds great to me, but doing it full time would drive me insane. Virtual meetings are awful for me, and you miss out on so much of the discussion that happens outside of the meeting - I think most of the important discussi…

Just wondering–would you do a 2 hour commute for this?

Am I the only one who enjoys my commute? To be fair, I bike or take the bus in the winter, but I listen to audiobooks, podcasts, music, and get a good amount of exercise.

Re: Shopify Goes Digital by Default

#287

Post by andarleen »

bamazizi wrote: post #191

Consider the domino effect of these decisions. With WFH culture rising: (Disclosure, I'm 100% in favour of WFH and been doing it for past ~5 years) - Commute time is reduced to seconds/minutes - Driving or taking public transportation plummets - Fuel consumption is vastly reduced, taking care of Pollution as well - Rush hour peaks flattens. might still have traffic, but it won't be because of volume of cars. like fro…

Yeah but apparently there are people who can't make their own sandwiches because that leads to decision fatigue, and as such remote work sucks. Anyway, sarcasm. I totally support WFH due to less commute time, more money saved, increased productivity and overall higher quality of life, oh and it's much more environmentally friendly.

Re: Shopify Goes Digital by Default

#288

Post by pb7 »

newfeatureok wrote: post #283
pb7 wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What difference does it make if we're comparing apples to apples? I don't think a company that offers free lunch deciding whether to go fully remote or not has any effect on another that doesn't offer free lunch. Privilege or not doesn't make my opinion any more or less invalid.

My point is that "decision fatigue" is not a valid point to begin with since most people don't deal with such issues therefore it's not really relevant in the grand schemes of remote-first discussions.

It does when talking about companies whose offices provide perks that potentially improve quality of life, productivity, happiness, etc. The decision between working at home and working in an empty warehouse is different than home and the brand new offices of companies like Stripe, Dropbox, and many others.

Re: Shopify Goes Digital by Default

#289

Post by 650REDHAIR »

rfdearborn wrote: post #70

Seems like permanent remote-optional is rapidly becoming the competitive equilibrium in tech. As tooling improves, there is some point at which gains from expanded recruiting pool + real estate savings outweigh coordination/culture costs of remote. Beyond this it will be irrational to force physical presences (for many roles, at least) and there'll be no going back.

It will also drive down wages across the board long term.

Re: Shopify Goes Digital by Default

#290

Post by tarsinge »

cletus wrote: post #222
kjakm wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> I of course miss the meals and snacks. I'm not trying to be facetious - you seriously can't provide your own meals and snacks working from home? >> Many people who work at these companies live in big cities where they don't have huge amounts of space and it's not conducive to being productivity, particularly if you live with other people, if you can't get some form of separation. Do you live in that space because…

> I'm not trying to be facetious - you seriously can't provide your own meals and snacks working from home? Of course I can but I just don't want to. This isn't about being cheap or lazy (although I'm guilty of both to varying degrees). The biggest benefit of having a catered office is the lack of having to make a decision about what to eat. I'll just eat what they're serving that day. I'm a big believer in decision…

> So yeah, I could buy a big house Georgia but... why would I want to?

Because living in a big city with lot of options for food (and maybe other enjoyable and interesting things) give you decision fatigue?

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