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The global oil market is broken, drowning in crude nobody needs

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Re: The global oil market is broken, drowning in crude nobody needs

#281

Post by 0xff00ffee »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #216
0xff00ffee wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly why "fair trade" products like coffee and chocolate exist. There is an agreement to have an absolute minimum purchase price to prevent a big corporation from clobbering the competition by taking a loss, then jacking up the price. See also: rideshare. VC pumps in billions so that Lyft & Uber can be cheaper than taxis at a HUGE loss -> taxis go out of business -> Lyft & Uber jack up their prices because…

> See also: rideshare. VC pumps in billions so that Lyft & Uber can be cheaper than taxis at a HUGE loss -> taxis go out of business -> Lyft & Uber jack up their prices because they own the market. Did the rideshare companies actually jack up their prices at any point? How would they do that when they're still in competition with each other and the barrier to entry to the market remains low? Any attempt to raise pric…

Taxis haven't gone out of business yet.

Medallians only apply to NYC. Cities have been hit hard (portland, austin). But to be fair, it caused Radio Cab to modernize with an app.

Profitabilty: Here, I did your research for you, not too hard:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lensherman/2019/06/02/can-uber-...

https://www.latimes.com/business/hiltzik/la-fi-hiltzik-lyft-...

Please take at least one second to google next time?

Fair Trade absolutely has an impact, by your own admission! You are applying the "if you can't fix everything don't bother fixing anything" fallacy. I don't know why certain personality types have to hide behind this when someone is trying to do something good. Do you just hate yourself?

Re: The global oil market is broken, drowning in crude nobody needs

#282

Post by stoneman24 »

Arnt wrote: post #162
stoneman24 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While there can be a great deal of pressure pushing the oil up the well, there is also resistance to that flow up a narrow pipe (perhaps 4 inch pipe). The balance of forces can be very close but the momentum can keep the flow going. In some fluids, there can be methyl hydrates (or wax) that can cause problems with maintaining flow. There can also be particles that are moving in the fluid (sand), slowing or stopping t…

Oh, so it's a matter of the well itself too, not just of its surroundings? TIL.

Yes, and also to agree with Arnt (sibling comment), there can also be effects between neighbouring wells. In some fields, the fluid/gas can move easily (wells will affect each over) in others, there is little ability for movement. The fracking that engineers do attempts to add additional channels for the fluid/gas to move. So trying to turn down one well can lead to other effects. And in changing the situation, there will transients which will decrease over time.

Re: The global oil market is broken, drowning in crude nobody needs

#283

Post by dang »

petecox wrote: post #280
dang wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't post shallow flamebait like this to HN. It has noticeably degrading effects on discussion, and the last thing we need here are political or nationalistic flamewars. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22718650 .

At this point the YCombinator foundation should disclose what percentage of its funding comes from the mining lobby. Twice in a day the dang chatbot has hijacked threads to support its fossil fuel agenda. Pro coal, pro oil. And as I said yesterday, there is no intellectual curiosity in climate change denial. STOP EDITORIALISING. you are a degrading effect on the discussion.

You're running into a common error affecting internet forum users: when you run into moderation you dislike, it always feels that the mods are biased against your view. By the same mechanism, it feels like the refs are biased against your team and the cops always let the other guy get away with speeding and you get stuck with the ticket. The problem is that you don't notice (or weight as strongly) the cases where the mods have made calls the other way. I guarantee you those are out there.

This are studies on this, FWIW: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostile_media_effect

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...

There's more explanation at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22386811 and https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... if anyone wants it. Of course it doesn't follow that the moderators aren't biased, just that you can't conclude they are from spot observations.

You certainly shouldn't let it make you go on tilt and break the site guidelines as badly as here and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22714337. At some point we have to ban you if you keep doing that. Please stop and use HN as intended, instead: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

Re: The global oil market is broken, drowning in crude nobody needs

#284

Post by petecox »

dang wrote: post #283
petecox wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point the YCombinator foundation should disclose what percentage of its funding comes from the mining lobby. Twice in a day the dang chatbot has hijacked threads to support its fossil fuel agenda. Pro coal, pro oil. And as I said yesterday, there is no intellectual curiosity in climate change denial. STOP EDITORIALISING. you are a degrading effect on the discussion.

You're running into a common error affecting internet forum users: when you run into moderation you dislike, it always feels that the mods are biased against your view. By the same mechanism, it feels like the refs are biased against your team and the cops always let the other guy get away with speeding and you get stuck with the ticket. The problem is that you don't notice (or weight as strongly) the cases where the…

Step out of your North American bubble and you will see that the oil states and the USA are widely condemned for their acceleration of climate change.

An impartial moderator would reflect "I don't agree with the sentiment but fair play".

I wouldn't mind if you shilled on behalf of the 1% for the destruction of the planet but not in a way that is intellectually dishonest with respect to its readership.

Re: The global oil market is broken, drowning in crude nobody needs

#285

Post by wuwuno »

Saudi Arabia, our ally, is working hard to completely destroy the U.S. Shale Oil industry, as well as the Russian Oil industry, and every other oil producing country in the world.

The cost to produce oil in Saudi Arabia is about $6 a barrel and they are taking this opportunity to undermine everything. Only Iraq is close in cost to produce oil as the Saudi's, and the U.S. has worked to make sure that Iraq is not a threat to the Saudi's.

Re: The global oil market is broken, drowning in crude nobody needs

#286

Post by jazzyk »

wuwuno wrote: post #285

Saudi Arabia, our ally, is working hard to completely destroy the U.S. Shale Oil industry, as well as the Russian Oil industry, and every other oil producing country in the world. The cost to produce oil in Saudi Arabia is about $6 a barrel and they are taking this opportunity to undermine everything. Only Iraq is close in cost to produce oil as the Saudi's, and the U.S. has worked to make sure that Iraq is not a thr…

Yes, but the Saudis reportedly need to charge ~$80/barrel to balance their budget - and oil is their only source of income.

I am really not sure what game the Saudis are playing.

Re: The global oil market is broken, drowning in crude nobody needs

#287

Post by _8j50 »

redisman wrote: post #240
_8j50 wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree, the pre-corona energy usage was desirable since it was a result of healthy economic activiy. What is not desirable is how most of it was fossil fuel. To replace fossil, you need renewables to be cheaper or to compete with oil, this means oil should be used more but produces less so it costs more than renewables(which was the pre-corona trend). My opinion is, the focus should be on switching consumption to…

That' not what OP said. "oil consumption" not "energy consumption". But yes pretty much anyone with half a brain and no vested interested in fossil fuels agrees that fossil fuels need to be ran down ASAP and replaced with renewables. I'd imagine with optimized solar and next generation nuclear we could get a lot closer to "unrestricted" energy.

Yes,but maybe you missed my point, it was that "oil consumptiom" needs to go up along with oil prices before it can be taken down by renewables. That is fastest way, the slow way is to wait for disasters to keep happening and hope nations force change.

Re: The global oil market is broken, drowning in crude nobody needs

#288

Post by bitreality »

Robotbeat wrote: post #83
bitreality wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Government and industry will want demand to ramp back up, but it's doubtful that will be supported by consumers. I don't think you're going to see an instant rush back to international travel. Same goes for most other industries. This isn't a situation where you just wake up one day and it's over. It's not a war where you just make up and get back to work. This virus is out there, and most experts say even if you wer…

Citation for “most experts.” Most actual virus experts I’ve seen say the opposite: the virus is mutating slowly (at least in the spike protein, which is the part the immune system responds to) and the “reinfection” measurements are likely measuring residual virus genetic material, not necessarily true reinfection. @trvrb on Twitter. And this other guy, with this thread: https://mobile.twitter.com/PeterKolchinsky/stat…

I'm not suggesting that people will become quickly reinfected, I'm saying that their immunity will be temporary, such as one or several "infection seasons".

Re: The global oil market is broken, drowning in crude nobody needs

#289

Post by MR4D »

wcoenen wrote: post #173
eropple wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From...economics? Profit is market inefficiency, whether due to missing information or inadequate competition. Perfect efficiency drives prices down to the marginal cost of a good or service. Micro 101 stuff.

Wouldn't you expect the rate of return to approach the risk free interest rate, rather than profit being zero?

The risk free interest rate is zero. Heck, by the time you read this, it could go negative!

Re: The global oil market is broken, drowning in crude nobody needs

#290

Post by blablabla123 »

shawabawa3 wrote: post #74
blablabla123 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's risky though, it's possible to get ruined by buying futures (or put options for that matter) since it's basically a contract that must be fulfilled at some point in the future. AFAIK normally they function as insurance for buyers and sellers, to create more market stability.

Put options are called options for a reason You never have to exercise if you don't want to so there's a fixed maximum cost

I'm no expert in this, but my understanding is that futures are a mutual obligation and options are a one-sided obligation. So in case of a put option, it's optional for the other side - in case of a call it's optional for me.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I assume there is a good reason why banks require additional paperwork from people who want to trade options/futures that must be renewed on a regular base.

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