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Federal Reserve pledges asset purchases with no limit to support markets

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Re: Federal Reserve pledges asset purchases with no limit to support markets

#281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is 110% not good to have any major corporation go into a technical default. We are talking about companies which have plenty of assets and strong businesses. That's where the problem lies. Who is going to decide that? Traditionally we have debt markets for that.

The biggest problem at the moment is the debt markets have almost completely stopped functioning. Let me repeat what the other poster said: “We are talking about companies with plenty of assets and strong businesses”. And they still can’t get needed short term financing. Should we let clearly creditworthy companies go bankrupt because the credit markets are temporarily closed?

> “We are talking about companies with plenty of assets and strong businesses”.

We are also talking about companies with specious "assets" and incredibly fragile businesses.

> Should we let clearly creditworthy companies go bankrupt because the credit markets are temporarily closed?

No, but they are not all creditworthy. Do you happen to know the ratio between the two? It seems to me that is a rather important data point that a logical person should be examining as part of their decision making process.

Re: Federal Reserve pledges asset purchases with no limit to support markets

#282
post #134

Lots of voices missing the mark: the fed is acting to keep the corporate bond market from seizing up. Corporations finance part of their borrowings through bonds. These bonds need to be paid in full + the interest when the bond matures. Corporations and banks typically repay some of these from cash, and some by issuing new bonds. Right now no one is getting to issue new bonds at all. Banks cannot lend because the ris…

> It is 110% not good to have any major corporation go into a technical default. Q: rather than going into debt, would it be possible for the government to just... suspend the activation of financial covenants generally for a while? Enact a law putting a temporary patch on how contract law works vis-a-vis financial instruments? Something like... any covenant with triggers written after date X would now be required to…

The big problem is how this exports pain outside the US.

Even if the US could allow US companies to default for a year without penalty, the Chinese companies expecting coupon payments wouldn't receive the funds they use to operate. They would then have to default on their Chinese obligations.

If Chinese companies can't pay their debts in China, China faces huge pressure to devalue or inflate. They're unlikely to adopt the forgiveness rule. Emerging markets are at the end of this game of crack the whip.

Re: Federal Reserve pledges asset purchases with no limit to support markets

#284
post #237

Lots of voices missing the mark: the fed is acting to keep the corporate bond market from seizing up. Corporations finance part of their borrowings through bonds. These bonds need to be paid in full + the interest when the bond matures. Corporations and banks typically repay some of these from cash, and some by issuing new bonds. Right now no one is getting to issue new bonds at all. Banks cannot lend because the ris…

There is a lot of popular sentiment that misses the mark of the Fed, largely due to most Americans not taking time to study and understand it, but just seeing this large entity that has first-order effects that seem to only benefit banks and investors. The parent here ^ seems to understand the nuance, that a lot of Fed decisions are for the CREDIT markets, not the stock markets. I highly recommend reading the Greensp…

Lowering rates wouldn't be seen as dishonest if the Fed ever actually raised them. We're at 0% because their algorithm seems to be if (problem) lower() else party().

The response to 2008 wasn't a problem in isolation, but continuing that policy into 2010-2019 was. Rates even started going up slightly a year ago, but then got nipped in the bud to keep the stock bubble rising.

I'm willing to agree that at this current point, these bailouts seem quite prudent. The problem is that after the crisis is over, the hazardous financial and business practices that necessitated the bailouts will never be reigned in, but allowed to continue thus necessitating another bailout in the future.

Re: Federal Reserve pledges asset purchases with no limit to support markets

#285

Lots of voices missing the mark: the fed is acting to keep the corporate bond market from seizing up. Corporations finance part of their borrowings through bonds. These bonds need to be paid in full + the interest when the bond matures. Corporations and banks typically repay some of these from cash, and some by issuing new bonds. Right now no one is getting to issue new bonds at all. Banks cannot lend because the ris…

All this does is result in further leveraging for the next cycle, when even unlimited QE cannot save the bond markets.

Re: Federal Reserve pledges asset purchases with no limit to support markets

#286
post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the exact same reason why it’s legal for individuals to take 30 year mortgages. Would you prefer world where you first need to save up for decades before being able to stop renting? It’s the same with businesses: they take loans, because they allow them to make money now, and it works just fine in normal times without an actual pandemic and forced lockdown of everything.

Except that people didn't have to save for decades to afford houses before the advent of the 30-year mortgage. Debt is risky, period. Someone has to pay for that risk when bad things happen and the debt cannot be repaid. Also, people respond to incentives. When individuals and companies are allowed to keep all the profits from their risky activities, but are shielded in whole or in part from the losses, they will res…

> Except that people didn't have to save for decades to afford houses before the advent of the 30-year mortgage.

There is a certain truth in that the ballooning housing prices in many places have a lot to do with availability of credit to the buyers. At the same time, if you're planning to build a new house, you'll find that the costs of building itself are also high. Quite simply, building requires lots of labor, and labor today is much more expensive than it used to be in the old days. To build a house under modern standards and code, you're going to spend at least $200k, probably more. It definitely will take a decade if not two before a typical American family can save up as much, especially while making rent payments at the same time.

> Some of this is inevitable, and desirable--risk-taking is the driver of all economic progress. But how much? How far do we take it? Are we actually creating a society worth living in when the "risk-takers" are all rich multinational corporations?

In truth, the real risk-takers are millions of regular people, who don't build any significant savings to weather the storm. I find it strange to complain about moral hazard of government or Fed bailing out businesses by loaning them money, when at the same time individual people are given various kinds of unemployment insurance, child benefits, subsidized housing etc. These might be right thing to do, but they create even bigger moral hazard, and it should be recognized before complaining about businesses getting some government support. Can you imagine government instituting a "loss of profits insurance" program, where every business must pay in some percentage of profits, and which will pay out replacement of profit should something happen, the same way unemployment insurance works? Or a program where government simply gives cash to businesses that are owned or employ people government decides are worthy of support, the same way child benefits work?

Re: Federal Reserve pledges asset purchases with no limit to support markets

#287
post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who with cash is going to buy all of these businesses and take on their debt? Apple? Microsoft? Some PE firms? Or is your proposal to default on all the debt for those industries and buy the companies in a firesale? Tourism would actually disappear in that scenario...

They United Stats Government should do it. They have literally unlimited funds, and this approach would actually be the most consistent with our "capitalistic" economic model. Not that we live in anything approaching a capitalist economy of course, but it would be funny if they were logically consistent for once.

> They United Stats Government should do it

That's what they're doing and what the article is about. [Edit: not buying the companies outright, but buying their debt]

The person I was responding to was proposing something else about clever entrepreneurs buying up all of these industries in bankruptcy, or something.

Re: Federal Reserve pledges asset purchases with no limit to support markets

#288

Lots of voices missing the mark: the fed is acting to keep the corporate bond market from seizing up. Corporations finance part of their borrowings through bonds. These bonds need to be paid in full + the interest when the bond matures. Corporations and banks typically repay some of these from cash, and some by issuing new bonds. Right now no one is getting to issue new bonds at all. Banks cannot lend because the ris…

> We are talking about companies which have plenty of assets and strong businesses. We are also talking about companies that are leveraged to the tits to juice their return on equity. What is glossed over in all of these discussions about bailouts is that the managers of these corporations respond directly to financial incentives, and the existence of a "lender of last resort" such as the Fed ensures that corporation…

> Someone has to eat the losses, and in an actual free market there are two options: the equity holders, or the bondholders.

The equity holders are eating the losses; have you seen the stock market?

> Now, the Fed provides a third option: the holders of U.S. dollars, whose currency is devalued as money is printed to paper over the void which was opened up by the pandemic. And so the charade will continue.

Money is being temporarily created and lent, in exchange for collateral (bonds) to avoid a lack of liquidity caused by decreasing asset values and more hesitant lenders. Once things go back to normal, the money will be destroyed since corporations will return the money in exchange for the asset again. The net currency devaluation is 0.

Re: Federal Reserve pledges asset purchases with no limit to support markets

#289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whoa there with the false equivalency. Helicopter money would be more helpful than propping up the wealth of the top wealth brackets using price floors through broad scale asset purchases. Literally give away hundreds of billions of dollars to citizens who will spend it right this minute . Have the government be economic demand of last resort to steady the ship until people can actually move about again. There will b…

This. Can someone with some financial background refute this? Why is buying assets a better idea? In concrete, non-abstract, non-hand-wavey, laymen terms, how is it going to make the Average Joe get through this crisis? How is it going to help him pay for his rent/food/etc in the next 2-3 months, and potentially longer when he possibly will have no job?

Legally, the Fed can't do that. Only the government can. Anyway, the Fed is mostly buying government debt or government-guaranteed debt. By buying up the existing debt, this creates space for the government to borrow and spend on supporting Average Joe.

Alternatively, the Treasury could print money and mail it out to Average Joe. But then there's no way for the Fed take the money out of circulation if we get inflation.

Re: Federal Reserve pledges asset purchases with no limit to support markets

#290

Lots of voices missing the mark: the fed is acting to keep the corporate bond market from seizing up. Corporations finance part of their borrowings through bonds. These bonds need to be paid in full + the interest when the bond matures. Corporations and banks typically repay some of these from cash, and some by issuing new bonds. Right now no one is getting to issue new bonds at all. Banks cannot lend because the ris…

> It is 110% not good to have any major corporation go into a technical default.

Too big to fail, eh? If that were true, there is no point having technical bailout as a possible state for companies to be in. Just remove it as a legal option and given them a permanent exception from having to do anything if the situation arises.

The justification is flimsy. If the businesses were any good they wouldn't need a bailout. They'd get new owners ad carry on as before. Capitalists are perfectly capable of putting an operation on ice for a few months for all that it would be painful and disruptive. Businesses go bankrupt because they are bad businesses and the economy is signalling the resources should be redeployed.

I can agree that the bailouts are going to happen; but these bailouts have been set in stone since 2008. Once 'give money to the wealthy and powerful to preserve the status quo' was identified as an acceptable solution it was going to become the default solution to any and all crisises. Someone could have come up with a better plan in the last 10 years but there was no incentive to.

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