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Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

japantimes.co.jp

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Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#281

Post by teyc »

adev_ wrote: post #79
justicezyx wrote: post #24

Japnese are like Chinese, are quite obedient, therefore can follow quite throughly of the checks in the entry and exit of the country. Plus, itself has much more modern and disciplined public health system, with more experiences dealing with similar issues. Last but not least, the Japan lands are literally isolated from continents, making the transition of virus through other medium much more easier to track.

> Japnese are like Chinese I would advise you to never say to a Chinese or a Japanese that they are alike. Excepted if you want to enrich your vocabulary with new insults in a foreign language. Many of them are nationalists, and not really appreciating each other.

I wouldn't say the Chinese have a particularly penchant for being obedient any more any any one else.

The countries which are winning against COVID are those who don't give loudspeakers to stupid people.

Just saying.

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#282

Post by autokad »

objektif wrote: post #267
SiVal wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with every point you're making, so I wonder if it isn't just one big factor: lots of people routinely put on masks at the first suspicion that they might be sick, even before they're sure. They just go ahead and do it just in case. And they do this all the time, so there's no delay due to self-consciousness or unfamiliarity or having to go buy a mask. It's just ordinary life. Like taking shoes off in the hous…

But we are being told that masks don't hep with prevention. Do you mean that sick ones do that not to spread?

not sure why you are being downvoted, as this was very much what we were told by outlets like cnn, etc. "dont where masks, they dont work and health care workers need them to not get the virus"

I was basically treated like a country bumpkin in a work channel (Amazon) for suggesting if you are going outside (Seattle) you should wear a mask.

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#283

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

graeme wrote: post #92
vasilipupkin wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

agree, we will know in a month, but even if govt is lying about cases, we should be seeing a deluge of patients in the ICUs and rise in deaths and we aren't seeing that

How would you know they haven’t? If you don’t test a death for the virus, the death doesn’t show up in virus death counts. And if you aren’t in a hospitals, the deaths wouldn’t show yet. At some point it would become too big to ignore. But is Japan there yet? This is definitely a space to watch over the next 2-3 weeks.

The CDC lumps deaths by pneumonia into its influenza estimates. Presumably epidemiologists would do the same here and just miss the distinction from actual influenza deaths.

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#284

Post by mirimir »

tcbawo wrote: post #260
mirimir wrote: post #241

I wonder if there could be a genetic factor. Maybe something ~unique to Japanese?

I was curious of a genetic link after hearing about a family in New Jersey where four members died after one dinner party [ https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-51978164 ]. Being relatives, though, they may have all had similar comorbidities.

Huh. Italian family. So I suppose that they might carry susceptibility genes. It's my impression that Italians are extremely diverse genetically, but I guess that there could be ~isolated subpopulations.

I wonder whether anyone's looked for that in the data from Italy.

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#285

Post by E14n »

SiVal wrote: post #227
rendaw wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this is the answer. - There's no more social distancing in Japan than in the US. Nobody goes around hugging, shaking hands with, or kissing strangers in the US. Trains are still packed. - Most public bathrooms don't have soap and I've rarely seen people wash their hands after using the bathroom anyways. - People don't listen to the government - most people I know are arranging or participating in flower…

I agree with every point you're making, so I wonder if it isn't just one big factor: lots of people routinely put on masks at the first suspicion that they might be sick, even before they're sure. They just go ahead and do it just in case. And they do this all the time, so there's no delay due to self-consciousness or unfamiliarity or having to go buy a mask. It's just ordinary life. Like taking shoes off in the hous…

It is too early to know whether what Japan has done is enough and whether it will be effective long term.

That said, It isn't just people wearing mask, or something innately Japanese. At the beginning of last year they had a serious flu outbeak[1]. This years flu cases saw a major reduction when measures to combat COVID-19 came into effect[2].

I have noticed a lot of little things that have come into effect as a response to covid-19.

* Medical clinics put signs up saying don't come in if you have flu like symptoms, phone and keep yourself isolated. That allows them to keep the vast majority of people with mild colds and flu separated from those with possible COVID-9.

* Stopping schools reduced the numbers of people on public transport.

* Putting pressure on companies to allow people to work from home.

* The supermarket bakery started wrapping all bread and pastries before putting them out, previously you would place what you wanted in a tray and they would wrap it.

1. https://www.nippon.com/en/japan-data/h00386/japan-gripped-by... 2. https://twitter.com/adtimmering/status/1240900101687480320?s...

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#286

Post by E14n »

objektif wrote: post #267
SiVal wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with every point you're making, so I wonder if it isn't just one big factor: lots of people routinely put on masks at the first suspicion that they might be sick, even before they're sure. They just go ahead and do it just in case. And they do this all the time, so there's no delay due to self-consciousness or unfamiliarity or having to go buy a mask. It's just ordinary life. Like taking shoes off in the hous…

But we are being told that masks don't hep with prevention. Do you mean that sick ones do that not to spread?

Surgical masks are designed to prevent you spreading viruses. That is the type most people wear in Japan. N95 masks are designed to protect you.

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#287

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

tomcooks wrote: post #72
nabla9 wrote: post #2

In South Korea epidemic was started with one sick cult member spreading it to wast number of people. In Italy the person who started Lombardy cluster was first asymptomatic for weeks, was later misdiagnosed and spreading the disease in hospital. It seems that the epidemic is starting without similar super-spreaders in Japan. Case fatality deaths to recovered rate in Japan is 18%. In South Korea it's 6.6%. This might…

Patient zero in Lombardy has never been found.

Lots of Chinese staffed sweat shops are manufacturing "Made in Italy" products.

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#288

Post by boomboomsubban »

barry-cotter wrote: post #273
boomboomsubban wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If they weren’t effective at reducing infection healthcare workers wouldn’t wear them Yes, they would. The healthcare worker may already be sick, and are regularly closely interacting with people that have compromised immune systems. An illness that wouldn't slow down a nurse may kill a patient.

If we agree that masks slow the spread of disease from and to wearers then we are in clear disagreement with the Surgeon General. Masks work and the general populace should be encouraged to wear makeshift masks until such time as there are enough surgical masks for everybody or the crisis is over.

We don't agree. Masks would only help in the event that someone coughed/sneezed directly on your face but missed the eyes. Even then, removing the mask and washing your face without contamination would be difficult.

Makeshift masks don't necessarily even help in that situation, become a liability when contaminated, and putting it on then removing it causes additional risk.

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#289

Post by boomboomsubban »

lmz wrote: post #270
boomboomsubban wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If they weren’t effective at reducing infection healthcare workers wouldn’t wear them Yes, they would. The healthcare worker may already be sick, and are regularly closely interacting with people that have compromised immune systems. An illness that wouldn't slow down a nurse may kill a patient.

Have you read this article? https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/17/opinion/coronavirus-face-... > Third, of course masks work — maybe not perfectly and not all to the same degree, but they provide some protection. Their use has always been advised as part of the standard response to being around infected people, especially for people who may be vulnerable.

That quote does not fully describe what is advised, but wearing one when you are knowingly interacting with an infected person is different than general use.

Re: Why is Japan still a coronavirus outlier?

#290

Post by lioeters »

phkahler wrote: post #167

I'll offer one hypothesis and a quick explanation. Iodine. The Japaese have a high iodine content in their diet. I'm taking 10x the US RDA. Some have suggested this is the reason for lower breast cancer rates there (no time to cover all that here and now). I read about Iodine years ago, and followed some doctors suggestions that it can help asthma. My asthma is effectively gone and my last PFT showed my lungs functio…

That's an interesting theory I hadn't heard before. I've read about iodine in seaweed and seafood, part of common diet in Japan; and how iodine influences thyroid hormones.

Just started searching on the role and effect of iodine in the body - indeed, it seems to be fundamental in fetal development and cell regeneration (its suppression, apoptosis); the endocrine system, metabolism, repiratory, immunity.. I never knew how important iodine is, thank you for pointing this out, I'll study more.

A possibly relevant snippet:

> Based on the reported values in seaweed, some have claimed levels of 12 mg (12,000 mcg) in Japanese diets, leading Abraham and Brownstein to propose that

> “only mainland Japanese consume adequate amounts of iodine and that 99 percent of the world population are deficient in inorganic, non-radioactive iodine; that is, they have not reached whole body sufficiency for that essential element.”

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