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Angular 9.0

blog.angular.io

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Re: Angular 9.0

#281

Post by goatlover »

crubier wrote: post #128
tannhaeuser wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a React hater (in fact, I like it a lot when it fits ) but I think when people criticize React, they're actually after the one-size-fits-all attitude displayed in comments such as yours. No, React is clearly not "the only sane way of doing web development" considering the web hosts many types of markup applications, the most successful ones predating React by decades.

Only sane way, you missed a word. Of course there are other ways, but they clearly flawed in my opinion. I used to hate web development before 2014 and now I love it. Php is an awful language, jquery was a nightmare. Angular makes no sense hence why it keeps reinventing itself, Vue forces you to have some logic expressed using an ad hoc language in templates like it’s 2010 instead of just using JS constructs etc... I…

> Whether it is server side rendered, a single page app, or statically rendered.

Nail meet hammer. Seriously though, what why you need a JS framework for static pages? What if your backend is in Go? What if you're doing heavy duty numerical analysis? What if your users want a Wordpress-like site? What if your team uses Rails or Drupal to quickly build sites?

You're saying React is better at everything?

Re: Angular 9.0

#282

Post by anarchodev »

momento wrote: post #178
JoeNr76 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been doing Angular for 5+ years now. I think you might be using it wrong because I never experienced anything like that.

Angular has a lot of unique concepts that people find difficult to wrap their heads around. The Observable pattern, decorators, typescript, etc. When you throw things like NGRX and effective management of state / side-effects in the mix; things get exponentially more complex and difficult to scale. I have personally witnessed companies take guys who have been slapping together "apps" in jQuery / .NET for the past 10…

yeah I think what people are getting at here is that there's often a large investment to figure out how to use Angular2+ correctly (and even a lot of the concepts from Angular2 have been improved upon with new features in versions 6-8). A lot of times it's not "bugs" but if you're not in a place where you can spend 8 hours a day learning the framework in addition to building your app, you're going to have to choose one or the other -- and that's where frustrations set in. I'm gonna choose "build my app" every time.

I don't think Angular is a bad choice across the board, but you need to weigh this heavily when deciding to use it.

Re: Angular 9.0

#283

Post by rbanffy »

strangescript wrote: post #267
remify wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Angular is a framework if you've hack you're way without following best practices you expose yourself to such things. I've been working with Angular2+ for 3 years and I haven't met any bug. Know the concepts, apply them and you'll have an easy trip.

"I've been working with Angular2+ for 3 years and I haven't met any bug." Give me a break, this isn't true for any code in existence.

I work with GCC since 1996 and I never encountered a compiler bug. Whatever I wrote, the program always ran as it was supposed to run (even if it, more frequently than I'd like to admit, it didn't do what I wanted it to).

There is software that's incredibly solid.

Re: Angular 9.0

#284

Post by ng12 »

Pigo wrote: post #244
remify wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Angular is a framework if you've hack you're way without following best practices you expose yourself to such things. I've been working with Angular2+ for 3 years and I haven't met any bug. Know the concepts, apply them and you'll have an easy trip.

Almost every problem I've seen with Angular involve people not knowing how to implement features correctly or using it for what it wasn't meant to be used for. You know, the same problems people have with all frameworks.

The problem is there's so much you need to know. Angular invented a custom feature with plenty of boilerplate for every task -- and if you want to do something that Angular doesn't explicitly support you'll end up fighting the framework very quickly.

Re: Angular 9.0

#285

Post by crubier »

spaceribs wrote: post #205
crubier wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For routing react-router is just perfect. And for data source/state management there is plenty of choice, I use Apollo for global state/data source and useState for small state full interactions, I can’t see how it could get simpler. But whatever floats you boat really, the point is that the nice part of vue are inspired by react anyway. I wish the two community merged, to be honest, I see no point in dividing for su…

> But whatever floats you boat really You specifically argued against that, your arguments seem to be highly religious in nature. I don't know how many years you've worked in the industry but if you think React will be the dominant way of building apps for the next ten years, I have some Adobe Flash developers who I'm sure would like to say a few words.

The ideas behind react will still be big in ten years yes.

My arguments are not religious but based on facts, I can share my PhD thesis from 2016 about user interface specification languages, that includes a comparison of more than 20 different approaches including react.

Flash was always a proprietary platform and only fools would have bet their whole career on it back then. The situation of the ideas behind react, and browsers as a platform are very different.

I’m not betting my career on it though (I’m a CTO in a company which Is not centered around web stuff) but I do believe that these ideas will leave an impact in the industry, and this belief is backed by specifically studying this topic for 4years, plus my 15years in the industry.

Re: Angular 9.0

#286

Post by squeaky-clean »

EugeneOZ wrote: post #69
ng12 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first time I saw this in Angular's material implementation I was completely floored: https://material.angular.io/components/dialog/overview#shari... The method for passing data to a dialog component is to import a magic constant and inject a data field into it's constructor? It's a completely over-engineered, nonsensical solution for a problem that doesn't even exist in React. There's so much stuff you have to be…

Don't use this library as an example of Angular code. I've written dozens of Angular apps and none of them were so over-engineered. AngularMaterial is a good example how to not design API. I'm sorry if it insults some people - we all make mistakes, it's ok, I'm sure you'll next library will be better and I understand it's too late to change API in a project, when some huge Google apps are using it.

Agreed, I've had to use angular material in the past and never would again. I generally enjoy Angular though.

Re: Angular 9.0

#287

Post by e12e »

momento wrote: post #178
JoeNr76 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been doing Angular for 5+ years now. I think you might be using it wrong because I never experienced anything like that.

Angular has a lot of unique concepts that people find difficult to wrap their heads around. The Observable pattern, decorators, typescript, etc. When you throw things like NGRX and effective management of state / side-effects in the mix; things get exponentially more complex and difficult to scale. I have personally witnessed companies take guys who have been slapping together "apps" in jQuery / .NET for the past 10…

> "we're going with Angular because we're a Microsoft house"

Is ms invested in Angular?

It's a Google project, isn't it? Is it first-party in dot.net? I though that was Blazor?

Re: Angular 9.0

#288

Post by e12e »

rubicon33 wrote: post #110
filoeleven wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAICT the upgrade path is still the same (0) and...it looked pretty painful when I first looked at moving from 1.x to 2. I maintain a sizable 1.x codebase and am deciding what to move to, since 1.x is dead next year. I just don’t see a good reason to go to 2+. It’s a different framework. All of the UI libraries we built upon (ng-grid, angular-ui) are either gone or different enough that we will have to redo all of o…

What is with this bazaar conviction that classes are bad?

Objects and messages good, classes and inheritance mostly bad.

Except maybe for modelling/simulating concrete classes of objects (ie, as in Simula, the language).

Proper multiple dispatch (a la common lisp CLOS) seems rare - I'm guessing java/c++ seemed like a sane trade-off for some type safety - but they probably should've stuck to self/smalltalk (for Java) or looked to standard ml/common lisp (c++).

I still don't understand why Javascript got classes, rather than some paint on the prototype system.

Re: Angular 9.0

#289

Post by spaceribs »

crubier wrote: post #285
spaceribs wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But whatever floats you boat really You specifically argued against that, your arguments seem to be highly religious in nature. I don't know how many years you've worked in the industry but if you think React will be the dominant way of building apps for the next ten years, I have some Adobe Flash developers who I'm sure would like to say a few words.

The ideas behind react will still be big in ten years yes. My arguments are not religious but based on facts, I can share my PhD thesis from 2016 about user interface specification languages, that includes a comparison of more than 20 different approaches including react. Flash was always a proprietary platform and only fools would have bet their whole career on it back then. The situation of the ideas behind react,…

I'm a UI architect of a major SaaS company who maintains our 4-5 products between 8-10 feature teams. I've worked in the web industry for 11 years.

My job is to enforce some semblance of sanity between very smart and clever engineers without heavily impacting their ability to deliver. My job entails much cat-herding, setting norms, and maintaining expectations.

Every day I thank the gods we went with Angular. It has saved us countless times, every refactor is a joy, every upgrade is painless, every component is easily shared.

I don't have to constantly worry about XSS, I don't have to explain how I want things structured (because the build fails if they don't structure it right), and I don't have to worry that if someone leaves, no one will know how to pick up and modify their project.

Do developers hate it? Absolutely! They want to get work done fast and pump out cool, clever, smart work! They see Angular as a hinderance to the objective of "doing" because now they need to know about all these damn opinions that aren't their own. Angular isn't for them, it's for everyone else.

By contrast, React enables selfish coding, which while totally okay when you have a few people and clear lines of ownership, does not scale well without strictly defined responsibilities and amazing cultural levels of synchronous decision-making.

Re: Angular 9.0

#290

Post by hmcdona1 »

e12e wrote: post #287
momento wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Angular has a lot of unique concepts that people find difficult to wrap their heads around. The Observable pattern, decorators, typescript, etc. When you throw things like NGRX and effective management of state / side-effects in the mix; things get exponentially more complex and difficult to scale. I have personally witnessed companies take guys who have been slapping together "apps" in jQuery / .NET for the past 10…

> "we're going with Angular because we're a Microsoft house" Is ms invested in Angular? It's a Google project, isn't it? Is it first-party in dot.net? I though that was Blazor?

The architecture concepts behind Angular are very .net-esque in a lot of ways. It's often an easier transition for folks used to MVC style projects with a heavy reliance on dependency injection to wrap their head around Angular than some other SPA options out there so the two get related in this way a lot.

Microsoft also supported Angular early on as it was one of the largest early adopters driving folks to Typescript.

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