So, if company sells a product based on scraping google search results, google trying to block scraping would constitute "malicious interference with a contract"?
Per hiQ's arugment, but not per any existing ocourt decision.
Congrats! Web scraping is legal! (US precedent)
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Re: Congrats! Web scraping is legal! (US precedent)
#282So, when can I force companies to stop blocking my crawlers for their public data, and how do I accomplish this? :-D
Like hiQ, you can file a lawsuit and try to win. You might want to wait to see if hiQ wins their case.
Re: Congrats! Web scraping is legal! (US precedent)
#283Earlier quoted context omitted.
One of my clients is involved in property tax collection and reporting. Property Tax records are public info, and their website allows looking up the records for any property without a login. However, the data behind this website it the _source_ of the public records, and not the public records themselves (which would be local government databases). For years now we've been in an arms race with someone using a botnet…
Wouldn't the solution be to offer a streamlined download (maybe even as a torrent if you're worried about bandwidth) of all the data then?
For what purpose? That’s like suggesting that if people keep jumping your fence and trampling your roses because it’s a shortcut to a public park (in this case, the county records office) that already has public access roads, that you should be obliged to build a sidewalk through your garden, at your own expense, when the real answer should be that the public road should be improved.
Re: Congrats! Web scraping is legal! (US precedent)
#284This wouldn't supersede any violations of the ToS, though. I guess it would mean they can't sue you (maybe?) but they could still kick you off their service. Could they still go after you for breach of contract?
Wasn't the point that they were scraping public profiles, i.e. they never signed up and thereby never signed any ToS?
ToS aren't signed. They are terms of service, not license agreements.
ToS merely need to be disclosed, and the site cna decline service if you violate the terms. A license agreement may subject you to penalties for violating the agreement.
Re: Congrats! Web scraping is legal! (US precedent)
#285Earlier quoted context omitted.
What if the organization is one person in an LLC? Do they get rights? If so then a big company can hire a bunch of little LLCs to act as rights-having proxies for any task that requires them.
I'm going to assume you're asking in good faith and try to address the confusion here. The human does get rights, the organization doesn't. In some cases, believing that humans have rights and believing that organizations have rights might lead one to the same action. In those cases, I'd take the action. I wouldn't want to violate a human's rights out of some vindictive dislike of organizations: that's not the point.…
Are contracts allowed in your worldview? Contracts must be signed by individuals, but when they act as representatives of a company, they are legally binding for that company. If they only have individual rights, then all individuals who didn't physically sign a contract cannot be held to it.
Re: Congrats! Web scraping is legal! (US precedent)
#286Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your analogy doesn't hold. Your backyard is private property. The data that LinkedIn publishes is intended for the public. That's why Google can index the pages and give you results from LinkedIn.
Can someone taking down a open source project, like the leftpad debacle, be sued for tort?
I mean, anyone can be sued for anything. I can file a lawsuit with basically zero legitimacy to it. It'll probably get thrown out, but you were still sued.
If the question is could someone win, potentially. The argument would basically have to be that the removal of that open source project is akin to other cases of negligent interference.
If this is a specific concern, consult a lawyer - 'cause I'm not one.
Re: Congrats! Web scraping is legal! (US precedent)
#287Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, my name, my job title, my employer, my job history. These are all my information, and selling them to marketing companies is definitely not archiving. Would you be OK with a company scraping your blog and selling it?
> Would you be OK with a company scraping your blog and selling it? Selling it how? If they put my blog posts in a book and try to sell that book, that’s copyright infringement. If they put my blog posts in an ML model corpus to train a translation service, and they then charge pay-per-use access to the resulting service... I don’t think I’d care, nor do I think there’s anything morally or legally wrong with that. If…
> If they put my blog posts in a book and try to sell that book, that’s copyright infringement
Actually even if they don’t sell it, but give it away, that’s still copyright infringement.
Re: Congrats! Web scraping is legal! (US precedent)
#288Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your analogy doesn't hold. Your backyard is private property. The data that LinkedIn publishes is intended for the public. That's why Google can index the pages and give you results from LinkedIn.
It's trivial to fix that - the exterior of GP's house then. That's available for public viewing; is intended for it, but is private property. If you monetise livestreaming it and describe it in your ToS, GP can't repaint the front door, or get new windows? Or perhaps slightly less contrived: If I publish a monthly lowlights reel of my favourite sports team as a podcast discussion on where they can improve in all thei…
Those examples don't fit because they are contracts not made in good faith. They aren't things you can control.
In this case, it was rules that the public data is available. It was a good faith contract on the part of HiQ to assume they could collect public data from a public website.
It would not be a good faith contract to assume you could control the paint colors on a property you don't own.
It seems to me that the interference ruling was wholly independent on deciding that what hiq was doing is legal.
Re: Congrats! Web scraping is legal! (US precedent)
#289Does this mean someone can scrape a restaurant directory website and create their own website with this same data?
Re: Congrats! Web scraping is legal! (US precedent)
#290"HiQ only takes information from public LinkedIn profiles. By definition, any member of the public has the right to access this information. Most importantly, the appeals court also upheld a lower court ruling that prohibits LinkedIn from interfering with hiQ’s web scraping of its site." Surely I'm not reading this correctly. This would seem to suggest that websites are not legally allowed to prevent bots from crawli…
They want to imply that, but they are wrong.
LinkedIn can't prevent HiQ from attempting to scrape their site through force of law.
LinkedIn can rate limit requests, make their site hard to scrape, change their format, whatever. LinkedIn is in no way responsible for how HiQ fulfills its contract to its customers. HiQ is attempting to say that if I sign a contract to provide you with a Tesla, then it would be illegal for Tesla to stop me from just taking one from them to give to you. If that sounds stupid, that's because it is.