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Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

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Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#281
I am an audio engineer and this is going to be a long thread. TLDR; I hate companies like Sonos. They add no value to people who know about audio. You see, everything about speakers is really simple. From the way they work to the way they're made. There's really just 4 pieces to make a speaker system. The speaker, power supply, amplifier and a pre-amplifier to modify the sound (eg. DSP, Equalizer, etc.)

That's why if you search on the used market today, you'll still see equipment from companies like Aiwa/Sony from the 80s and 90s simply because these speakers can be re-used even now as you can connect anything to them before the pre-amplifier and they'll still reproduce your source (iPod/TV/Computer/whatever). I posses a 40 year old Aiwa system that still functions flawlessly today like brand new. This is also possible today because speakers themselves can last so much longer. More than 40 years as you can tell.

All companies like Sonos do is add just another layer before the pre-amplifier stage - which is to make the speaker "smart". This is usually all those wifi chips and bluetooth and Google assistant and what not. This is the proprietary part of their system. Normally, you are able to throw away this proprietary part and still use the speaker system. But, in pursuit of more sales, to reduce the lifespan of a perfectly fine speaker system to simply increase revenues is the most hardcore, cruel thing one can do.

Sonos' speakers are so bad that many models aren't even serviceable. Meaning, you can't open them like you could on those Aiwa's and Sony's and put them back together. Once taken apart, they're useless. They use tons of glue, proprietary shaped screws sometimes even wire the speakers in such a way that they'll damage the units if you try to take them off. They purposely do this so their speakers can't be used anymore without damaging the appearance.

That's why I will any day buy a mediocre music system from Sony or LG than buy trash like Sonos. First of all, I know the quality of components they use is not that great. They use ordinary stamped steel, sometimes plastic baskets for their driver units as opposed to high quality aluminium construction. Paper diaphragms too. Their units don't even have proper crossover circuitry in some models. And besides, the drivers they use are actually based off rebranded generic Chinese, just tweaked a bit. They're very good at fooling people pretending to be an audiophile company. In reality, they're not even half as close to the stuff from the 80's and 90's.

So, having ranted this, there's literally no reason to support such terrible ethics backed company simply for the sake of their profits. Fuck Sonos and get a Sony (or whatever else you like that doesn't do this). This is not just for the environment, but to set a full stop to such terrible practices. The audio land is already so full of snake oil already that the last thing we need is another snake oil sales man like Sonos.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a physical device (ie featured-locked upon shipping), “support” amounts to paying the server bill, which is likely negligible.

Not true, Sonos works in a mesh, so all Sonos devices need to talk to each other, and to the controller app on phone or PC.

Absolutely doable over local network only.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In other words "recycle" mode isn't recycling (you can just chuck them in the trash) and it isn't reusing. A complete deception to sound green, with zero cost to Sonos with zero attempt to be green, and just causing a waste stream. Nice one Sonos.

Sonos will pay for you to ship your recycled speaker back to them to be recycled. Not only do they pay for this shipping and recycle the speaker, but they give you a 30% credit. Hardly zero cost to Sonos, and considering the thriving market for refurbished speakers from Sonos it seems pretty clear the old speakers are being reused. Overall, sounds like they're doing exactly what they say they are.

What is the point of recycling mode if you ship the speaker to them? Why wouldn't they just credit you upon receipt of the speaker?

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#284
post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. It is painful to realize that Apple has turned into that. My reference example is a Mac Mini and MacBook Pro which I bought around 2012. Both still work, and are upgraded with dual SSD and 16GB RAM. It is, however, not possible to upgrade or even reinstall the OS. Linux is now the only option, which without they would be useless. With my latest MacBook Pro, I already know that there are no upgrades, the keyboard…

> It is, however, not possible to upgrade or even reinstall the OS. I don’t feel it’s fair to expect a vendor to actively develop major feature upgrades for a seven-year-old computer. What keeps you from downloading and installing macOS High Sierra or Mojave on your 2012 hardware? Both versions still receive security updates, don’t they?

Not according to my experience. Regardless, it is a matter of philosophy behind the product. And it is now quite different from before. I will probably find a balanced combination of Apple products and open hardware + software that fits my needs.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely! I have a 1999 Sony amp and some older (1980s) Wharfedale speakers. Nothing I've bought in the last 25 years sounds remotely as good as them. And plugging in a Chromecast audio has given it immortality.

What's the current best alternative to a Chromecast Audio, now that they're discontinued and no longer as readily available? My current living room setup is a Chromecast Audio connected to an AVR via the optical out connection, which powers my speakers, but I'm curious if there's any alternatives. The eBay sellers are really starting to price-gouge, and I'm not naive enough to believe that my Chromecast Audio will la…

I have a Google Home mini connected via Bluetooth to my amp, with 25 year old Gale speakers. That works for casting, and of course directly controlling by voice. I previously tried connecting an old Echo Dot via the wired connection, but the quality was a bit rubbish. I'm guessing a crappy DAC in the Echo or something. The sound via Bluetooth is great though.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's also the direction Microsoft has been slowly moving Windows. You think it'd be bad if your router stopped working when you stopped paying, imagine the same scenario for your operating system.

MS is very aggressive with this in their Windows 10 development VM images you can download. Theyre free, but they only last 3 months. There doesnt appear to be anyway to activate - even if you have a legit license key through my.visualstudio.com. The VM prebuilt with VStudio, Visual Studio Code, WSL w/ Ubuntu and other goodies in a prebuilt image is attractive and a time saver. But, it's immediately on a kill switch…

There is ways of keeping it up. The one I can explain here, is to do a snapshot as soon as you have your apps setup, then just roll back at the end. There is "other" ways that I can't explain here.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#288

It seems like a lot of commenters here (as well as the tweets) are totally missing the purpose of the recycle mode. If you want to sell, give away, or otherwise let someone else reuse your Sonos, then DON'T PUT IT IN RECYCLE MODE . Easy peasy. Recycle mode exists for when you intentionally want to get a Sonos trade-in credit for recycling your speakers for materials . But because you don't send the speakers directly…

There's no part of me that follows anything you said.

We absolutely understand what the intention of the button is.

I do not understand the actual sane incentive for anybody in this transaction.

How would Sonos be worse off if those machines weren't wasted? You get a sale either way; you reward a loyal customer for an upgrade either way. If it weren't a large company, I'd say they do it out of spite - but in reality, it's just the bizarre, surreal method large corporations end up with ridiculous policies through a set of seemingly logical steps.

>>they have to trust you're actually recycling it instead of keeping it or selling it

Why? What is the benefit to them (Sonos)? What is the harm if you DID keep it?

>>The credit helps encourage people to recycle them at all instead of just throwing them in the trash, right?

There's absolutely positively nothing about this mode / button that prevents people from throwing it in the trash. In fact, by any logic I can see, it does the opposite and encourages them to chuck it in the garbage - since it's now a worthless non-functioning brick.

>>the recycle lock is a clever mechanism to ensure that.

Let us please NOT call this travesty "Clever". At least not outside of SV tech-bro blinders culture :O. It does NOTHING to ensure recycling.

>>Otherwise you could "cheat" by getting the credit AND still using/selling your speakers.

Oh noes! Wait.. HOW would Sonos be at all worse off? How would ANYbody be impacted for the worse?

>>this seems like a win for all sides

Sonos didn't get anything out of it. Recycling company got less out of it. Earth got less out of it. And there's no reason I can understand why consumer has to go through that hoop to get an upgrade credit. Seems like a lose-lose for all sides.

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I'm not going to downvote, because you made a lucid argument and downvotes are for those who do not contribute to conversation, not for disagreements. I'd say your post contributed a lot to conversation, seeing the number of comments:). But I fail to understand the argument you're trying to make and the framework / world outlook where it makes sense. I'm willing to be persuaded otherwise but need a lot more to even begin changing my mind :-/. Just because consumer "have choice", doesn't make one of the options automatically sane.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#289

What a total waste. Apparel companies are starting to participate in the secondary market for their used gear, why can't Sonos do something similar? Examples: - Patagonia Worn Wear ( https://wornwear.patagonia.com ) - REI Used Gear ( https://www.rei.com/used/shop/gear ) - Arc'teryx Rock Solid ( https://rocksolid.arcteryx.com ) As it stands, Sonos is effectively buying their old speakers and then throwing them away. C…

Then they would have to continue supporting those devices, which isn’t part of the planned obsolescence business model. It would also dilute the luxury brand halo that Sonos has tried to cultivate. It’s more like Louis Vuitton getting into the secondhand market. They too would (and do) destroy merchandise rather than let it get sold at a discount and dilute the brand value.

[deleted]

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would be great if you could use your own server, and that the server code was open.

And that's how it should have been.

Let’s make an open source Sonos clone and call it Fauxnos. It can be powered by a raspberry pi integrated into a speaker running mpd.

Who wants to join my git repo?

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