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Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

bbc.co.uk

281–290 of 303 posts

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#281
post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Ukrainian/Russian mainland war is a separate issue from Russians living in Crimea wanting to be reunited with their countrymen.

Where did you het this idea? If they want to be reunited, then how about they use one way ticket to Moscow and enjoy the motherland..

They did exactly this, except they used the whole peninsula as transport.

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#282
post #194
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ukraine was much larger before Soviet invasion. Crimea and Kuban were removed first, then Crimea granted back in exchange of other territories of same size at North and East of Ukraine, then Crimean is captured again. Never trust Russians.

Kuban and Crimea was conquered by Russian Empress Catherine the Great from Ottomans and local Golden Horde debrises. Ukraine was never considered non-Russian state until the fall of Soviets in 199x. Even when it gained short independency in 1917 by the rulings of the Brest Peace, it proclaimed itself as part of some new Russian Federation(that idea was not really liked by bolsheviks and they eliminated that state). E…

Ukraine IS Russia. When Peter I conquered Russia, it appended "Emperor of Russia" (Царь всея Русси) to his title. Ukraine IS the Russian state. Russians call themselves "Russish" (русские), and their country Rossiia (Россия), to distinguish themselves from Russians (русичи, русины) and Russia (Русся, Русь)

Crimea and Cuban were part of Ukraine prior to soviet invasion. Look at maps of Ukraine in 1919-1920: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_People%27s_Republic .

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#284
post #279
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Distinction between Russians and Ukrainians started after rename of (Kievan) Russia into Ukraine in 1908, when delegates from whole Russia Empire made decision to change name, to move away from Moscow. After Soviet Revolution, Ukrainians started Great Ukrainization, with it peak in 1929. At it peak, 81 millions of Ukrainians (Russians) and 77 millions of Russians (Russish) were counted in 1926. This was perceived as…

That's modern propagandistic oversimplification of the Great Hunger, which devastated agricultural parts of Soviet Union, including Russians and Ukrainians.

It was prohibited to talk about Holodomor at times of Soviet Union. Actual number of victims is still top secret of Russian Federation. Archives, which has huge historic value, are destroyed in 2010, 70 years after Holodomor, instead of opening for public. If you have detailed information about Holodomor, please share. Currently, we use recorded witnesses and sporadic documents to study it. Also, graves of victims are found at rate of about 2 new mass-grave per month in Summer, for decades.

All recorded witnesses share same main narrative: it was year with high yield, but everything edible, even in very small quantities, like handful of seeds, was confiscated by state multiple times per month, until people starved to death.

It's not a Great Famine, like in 1921. It's Holodomor ("Mass-murder by Famine").

Witnesses: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMTnkeksUMk More information: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5YjztNdRwk

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#285
post #284
post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's modern propagandistic oversimplification of the Great Hunger, which devastated agricultural parts of Soviet Union, including Russians and Ukrainians.

It was prohibited to talk about Holodomor at times of Soviet Union. Actual number of victims is still top secret of Russian Federation. Archives, which has huge historic value, are destroyed in 2010, 70 years after Holodomor, instead of opening for public. If you have detailed information about Holodomor, please share. Currently, we use recorded witnesses and sporadic documents to study it. Also, graves of victims ar…

Timothy Snyder's Bloodlands is excellent on the Holodomyr. He cites various sources estimating the victim count at 3M to 10M, and suggests 6M himself IIRC. He also details Stalin's orders in 32 and 33. The NKVD confiscated grain. When all the grain was gone, they confiscated seed grain, making it impossible to plant for the following year. And they confiscated the cattle too. Snyder constructs a strong argument to the effect that this was deliberate mass murder by Stalin.

And then Stalin launched the Great Terror in 37. Snyder estimates the death count as 750K.

In the West we have a propaganda hangover from WWII - the "Uncle Joe" view of Stalin. Many wonder at what was going on in Hitler's mind. For me Stalin is far more incomprehensible. Utterly cold, cynical and calculating. Must have been some kind of sociopath or psychopath.

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#286
post #203
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia doesn't exist now, because it renamed itself into Ukraine, to avoid confusion with bloody Russian Empire. Russian Federation ≠ Russian Empire (doesn't exist) ≠ Russia (now Ukraine) ≠ town of Russia (now Old Russa). BTW. Romania ≠ Rome (now Italy).

What do you mean when you say 'Russia' then? Do you mean the Kievan Rus? That's the only 'Rus' name I see applied to Ukraine on its wiki page. If so, that was 8 centuries ago, and the Russian ethnic group at that time was spread over Ukraine, Russia, and Belarus. Or perhaps, are you saying that the Russian empire isn't truly Russian because the Romanovs were German? I get what you're saying about country boundaries a…

880-1240 — Russia - Russia, Русь, modern name: Kievan Rus` (to avoid confusion with Russian Empire), now: Ukraine. Built on remnants of eastern part of Volynnia (Free People) kingdom (now: Volyn` region of Ukraine). Rus`-sia means "Rus` there/this" in Slavic, so "-sia" suffix is dropped in Slavic languages, thus Russia transformed into Rus` (BTW: s(с) and s`(сь) are different consonants). In Western Europe traditional name was used: Russia. They used Eastern Slavic Languages.

Then Russia fall apart into 1) Red Russia, or Ruthenia (Rose People Land), now: Western Ukraine, 2) White Russia, or White Ruthenia, now: Belarus`, 3) Black Russia or Black Ruthenia, now: Grodno region of Belarus`, 4) Carphatian Russia or Carpathian Ruthenia, now: Zakarpattia, western part of Western Ukraine.

1721-1917 — Petro I conquered Russia, so he got title "Emperor of All Russia" (Царь всея Руси). Then Catherine II renamed Moscow kingdom into "All Russia Empire" (Всероссийская Империя), which then simplified to Russian Empire(Российская Империя), or just Russia (Россия).

So Russia can mean Russia/Русся (<541), Rus`/Русь (880-1240), Red, White, Black Rus`, or Russian Empire/Российская Империя (1721-1917).

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#287
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia doesn't exist now, because it renamed itself into Ukraine, to avoid confusion with bloody Russian Empire. Russian Federation ≠ Russian Empire (doesn't exist) ≠ Russia (now Ukraine) ≠ town of Russia (now Old Russa). BTW. Romania ≠ Rome (now Italy).

"Rus" (Hellenized as "Rossia", and Latinized as "Ruthenia") was the term used to describe the entire territory from Kiev to Novgorod. Just because it had its capital in Kiev, doesn't mean that modern Ukraine is the only country that can lay claim to the word. Russia, Ukraine, and Belarus are all equally successors to that cultural and historical heritage.

There is no such country as Russia. Russian Federation tries to monopolize use of this word for themselves only.

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#288
post #284
post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's modern propagandistic oversimplification of the Great Hunger, which devastated agricultural parts of Soviet Union, including Russians and Ukrainians.

It was prohibited to talk about Holodomor at times of Soviet Union. Actual number of victims is still top secret of Russian Federation. Archives, which has huge historic value, are destroyed in 2010, 70 years after Holodomor, instead of opening for public. If you have detailed information about Holodomor, please share. Currently, we use recorded witnesses and sporadic documents to study it. Also, graves of victims ar…

It's all true, but it was not anti-Ukrainian crime commited by Russians. It was anti-Russian crime commited by Bolsheviks.

Every agricultural region with Russian(Ukrainian or Belorussian included) population suffered, not only Ukraine.

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#289
post #282
post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kuban and Crimea was conquered by Russian Empress Catherine the Great from Ottomans and local Golden Horde debrises. Ukraine was never considered non-Russian state until the fall of Soviets in 199x. Even when it gained short independency in 1917 by the rulings of the Brest Peace, it proclaimed itself as part of some new Russian Federation(that idea was not really liked by bolsheviks and they eliminated that state). E…

Ukraine IS Russia. When Peter I conquered Russia, it appended "Emperor of Russia" (Царь всея Русси) to his title. Ukraine IS the Russian state. Russians call themselves "Russish" (русские), and their country Rossiia (Россия), to distinguish themselves from Russians (русичи, русины) and Russia (Русся, Русь) Crimea and Cuban were part of Ukraine prior to soviet invasion. Look at maps of Ukraine in 1919-1920: https://en…

Well it looks that you are not Russian, your word analysis is quite wrong. We call ourselves русские(Russians) to distinguish ourselves from россияне(citizens of Russia).

It's meaningless to look at maps of Ukraine in 1919-1920, because it was failed state at that time, born by total chaos brought by Bolshevik's rebellion and defeat in WWI, caused by it. Also Crimea was not a part of Ukraine even then, they had their very own independent republic.

Ukrainians considered Russians in the Empire, at least those who lived on the left bank of Dnieper.

Re: Apple changes Crimea map when viewed from Russia

#290
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia doesn't exist now, because it renamed itself into Ukraine, to avoid confusion with bloody Russian Empire. Russian Federation ≠ Russian Empire (doesn't exist) ≠ Russia (now Ukraine) ≠ town of Russia (now Old Russa). BTW. Romania ≠ Rome (now Italy).

Interesting perspective. Are you suggesting Ukraine is the real Russian people? Also, where does that leave Belorussia?

Real Russian people are called "Rusichi/русичи" in Slavic, literally: "sons of Rus`". They are direct ascendants of citizens of town of Russia. Later, they are assimilated, so they forgot their language and culture. Major part of them are assimilated by Slavic tribes at territory of central and west Ukraine and Belarus`, so this territory got name "Russia" in 9 century.

Slavic people of Russia/Русь are called "Rusyns/русины" (y as in lynx), literally: "they are Rus`", or "Russish/руські", literally: "belongs to Rus`". Name "Rusyns" was popular in Habsburg Monarchy, while name "Russish" was popular in Russian Empire.

People of Russian Federation are called "Russish/руские", literally: "belongs to Rus`", or "Rossiiane/россияне", literaly: People of Russia/Россия, "Russish" means here believers of Russian Church, mostly Tatars, Erzan`, Mordva, and many other peoples, known as "Russificated peoples/обрусевшие народы".

So, Ukrainians are not "real Russians". Real Russians are assimilated and now are called Ukrainians, Belorussians, Cossacks, Russians, Lithuanians, etc.

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