Live data from Hacker News

Tesla Q3 Financial Results

ir.tesla.com

281–290 of 299 posts

Re: Tesla Q3 Financial Results

#281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In terms of being profitable or not a quarter, can't you use accounting techniques to twist this? I know that you can play off assets that still need to be paid as income. Or is the meaning always precise? For example, the first two don't say much; the third is much more significant and probably difficult to fake. Personally, I think the most important is whether they can follow their game plan: make a lot of debt fo…

> can't you use accounting techniques to twist this? Yes. Elon literally said, "Profits from here on out!" the last time they made profits. Then, Tesla proceeeded to lose 700MM the next quarter.

It's very interesting to read back over their 2018 Q4 report. They knew that starting up international deliveries would have a significant impact on recognizing revenue on all the vehicles they were able to build, whereas selling locally they can count on selling them pretty much as they came off the line;

> While the number of Model 3 vehicles produced should increase sequentially in Q1, deliveries in North America during Q1 will be lower than the prior quarter as we start delivering cars in Europe and China for the first time. As a result of the start of Model 3 expansion into Europe and China, deliveries will be lower than production by about 10,000 units due to vehicle transit times to these markets.

What actually happened was that production rate fell by ~10,000 from 86.5k to 77.1k and they also had deliveries fall behind production by 15,000 instead of their expected 10k;

> In Q4 2018, Tesla produced a total of 86,555 vehicles, and delivered 90,700 vehicles. In Q1 2019, Tesla produced 77,100 vehicles and delivered 63,000 .

I'd have to research the cause of the production drop, but that combined with a larger than expected delivery lag (compared to the prior quarter where they actually over-delivered vs. their production rate) is why they had such a tremendous loss. On top of all that I'm pretty sure gross margins also fell, and the S/X/3 mix became significantly more 3 dominant as the tax credit dropped.

So while I would not dispute that there are tricks that can be pulled, mostly in this case that would come down to the level of CapEx, which for Tesla is now below their depreciation. That's a metric which typically shows a slowing growth company, but in the case of Tesla could just be more reflective of how wasteful their spending actually was in the past (e.g. trying to fully automate production al la "alien dreadnought" and failing).

But in the case of Q4 2018 vs. Q1 2019 really what happened is they had significant issues with production, deliveries, and margins all at once driving down revenue well past anything they could correct by controlling spending.

Not to carry on about it, but any company can decide how much they want to invest in future growth, and if they will raise money to finance that, or if they will constrain their expenses based on their revenue and margins. That's not financial engineering or an accounting trick, that's just basic risk management and calibrating your spending based on your growth opportunity versus your cost of capital.

What we've seen in 2019, I think, is a focus on aligning the company for profit before the next push. I would not expect Tesla to have increasingly large profits each quarter, because it would be strange for them to sit on an increasing cash hoard ($5B+) when they have so many good ideas on how to spend it. Namely, building more factories for Model 3 & Y, getting into battery cell production, and whole new lines needed for the upcoming truck, and Semi production.

Re: Tesla Q3 Financial Results

#282
post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My kids are going to work for scholarships if college is in their future. I should have but didn't because my parents didn't understand the game and nobody told me otherwise. There is a balance to this though but I will provide all of the supports I can to help them be the individuals they are.

Please don't xplain the game you are referring to. I had scholarships but I don't get the game.

I hate that can't edit my comment up above, shouldn't type on the bus. I was trying to say "Please explain the game".

I disagree that college is a scam. I went many years ago when it wasn't that expensive, I had a job and also scholarships, was able to pay as I went with some parental help. But it was nothing like today, where it costs 30k a year at a reasonable state school. My generation has not met our responsibilities to maintain our countries infrastructure including educational infrastructure. It doesn't help that much that I have argued and voted against the direction of making education ever more expensive (in part because of lack of state funding).

Re: Tesla Q3 Financial Results

#283
post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds pretty weird when you talk about it. Like I'm long Aetna because I hope it will pay for my colonoscopy.

It's not weird actually. Peter Lynch would walk around shopping malls and see what people were wearing and buying. The next thing HN downvoters are going to say is that a good business is not necessarily a good investment. However, it's investing in what you know - which is another Peter Lynch idea.

A number of investors, Peter Lynch and Warren Buffett, especially act as if their process is less sophisticated than it is. Sure, maybe Peter Lynch had a few ideas cued up by walking through shopping malls, but the guy could also read a balance sheet.

Re: Tesla Q3 Financial Results

#284
post #249
post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wikipedia has its own enormous biases; it's editor population is enormously white, male, and American. That changes the filter of what they believe to be notable.

I don't see a realistic way to include every social group of human, proportionally to their impact. This is enormous task. And if we could - would you read news that has 20% content praising chairman Winnie-the-Pooh Xi? Because that's what proportional system would bring. Or 20% news about benefits of peasful islam. If whole country pushes certain narrative would it make the truth due to sheer number of supporters? P…

What I'm saying is that we should not take Wikipedia as some paragon of unbiased news. Your editor population determines the content that is published, critiqued and updated. They might have better standards than many online edited sources, but they are far from lacking bias.

Re: Tesla Q3 Financial Results

#285
post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still, a stock valued for massive growth with a revenue decline is definitely something that should leave you with a bad taste in your mouth.

It's not really that surprising. The growth expectations are taking into account that there are still several new markets to enter (Model Y, pickup, semi, etc.) and that continued reductions in manufacturing costs should allow lower prices which lead to higher sales volumes. But last year there were more tax credits, which front-loaded a lot of sales into a year ago, and they haven't released a new model this year. S…

People seem to act like the Model Y will just be an entirely additive thing to Tesla sales. How many Model 3's will be cannibalized by Tesla announcing a cheaper crossover? The demand for each of their vehicles is very interrelated, as seen by what the Model 3 has done to S/X sales in every country it has entered.

What I see with the revenue decline, and if you look at sales patterns by the countries they have entered is a company whose number one vehicle, the Model 3, has peaked in demand. I don't see many levers for them to really increase that, and many of the company releases, like the Model Y, will only cannibalize more of that demand.

Re: Tesla Q3 Financial Results

#286
post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> can't you use accounting techniques to twist this? Yes. Elon literally said, "Profits from here on out!" the last time they made profits. Then, Tesla proceeeded to lose 700MM the next quarter.

It's very interesting to read back over their 2018 Q4 report. They knew that starting up international deliveries would have a significant impact on recognizing revenue on all the vehicles they were able to build, whereas selling locally they can count on selling them pretty much as they came off the line; > While the number of Model 3 vehicles produced should increase sequentially in Q1, deliveries in North America…

You sounds fairly informed about the financials, and that's appreciated. Still:

>What we've seen in 2019, I think, is a focus on aligning the company for profit before the next push.

They are not profitable. They achieved profitability this quarter, but have lost money every year for their entire existence. Is this different from Q3'18?

>because it would be strange for them to sit on an increasing cash hoard ($5B+)

I'm not sure they have a "cash hoard" for any longer than the 10 minutes of their quarterly report. Drawing on debt debt to increase cash balance doesn't affect the balance sheet.

>Namely, building more factories for Model 3 & Y

Where did building more factories, and staffing them, show up in the financial reports? How can all of the labour and capital expenses stay the same (or fall) while this occurs? It's confusing that a company can essentially double its productive capacity without it being seen in the numbers. Can you shed light on that?

Despite what some of the conspiracy theorists on this site say, I may be...anti-Tesla? But only because I think it's such a compelling story. I don't short it (I don't short anything), and I don't talk about it outside of this site (where I talk about it too much). I really don't get it: the financials are a mess, Elon is, imho, a jerk, and yet...

Re: Tesla Q3 Financial Results

#287
post #63

I'd like to know what Tesla's debt load is, minus any debt related to vehicle leasing. Basically I wonder how much they owe in long term loans and bonds. I think it's on page 24, but I don't know how to read it. Ycharts says 13B - https://ycharts.com/companies/TSLA/total_long_term_debt

https://ir.tesla.com/static-files/65db1b3c-3edd-44b0-86ec-71... As of the end of June, 2019, they had $12.159 Billion in long term debt, not including vehicle leasing. You can view the debt individually with interest rates and maturity date on page 23 of my attached document

Ok from there they have about 1 billion in debt related to leased vehicles and a little over 1 billion in debt related to customer's solar installation financing.

Re: Tesla Q3 Financial Results

#288
post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To really take off in Europe, they need a smaller vehicle. Something the size of a BMW 1-series. Streets here are very narrow.

Model 3 is not tiny, but it’s IMO as small as you would ever want a car that travels highway speeds for safety reasons. I doubt Tesla will ever make a tiny 2-seater but I guess if the market is there they will follow it! BMW 1: 173” x 69” Model 3: 184” x 72.8”

It's amazing how different parts of the world see that.

I was going over the sizes of the S and 3 with my Dad in Australia, and it turns out the 3 is the same size as the most recent Ford Falcon, one of the biggest Sedans in Australia!

The 3 is NOT small in every country in the world except America.

Re: Tesla Q3 Financial Results

#289
post #76

Made so much money today. Thank you Elon, thank you Tesla owners. Remember kids if you don't own anything, you will be a slave forever.

How so? The stock hasn't even recovered to 2018 levels.

I have been buying regularly (dollar cost averaging) mostly under 200 earlier this year.

Re: Tesla Q3 Financial Results

#290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Foxconn story is far more nuanced than that. There's been substantial uncertainty in Foxconn's genuine commitment to the project. It's been heavily reported on that Foxconn is notorious for failing to follow through on its promises. e.g. https://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/27/heres-whats-worrisome-about-... There's been some great podcasts on the topic. Last I heard Foxconn kept changing their plans of what would actual…

Foxconn has purchased a number of buildings, but hasn't quite figured out what it wants to do with them. Simply put, it's a huge, multi-billion dollar global company with many, many more things going on that just Wisconsin, and as such a combination of things- most likely internal politics and / or misaligned management- have slowed down, but not stopped, their plans to expand. For example, they're in the process of…

This related article is on HN currently

https://reason.com/2019/10/24/wisconsins-massive-foxconn-boo...

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21350837

Post reply on HN