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A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

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Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

#281

Post by chippingtoe »

MrStonedOne wrote: post #29

This is natural selection at work. Stack Exchange has become a frustrating site to use. "Closed as duplicate: different and unrelated question" reopen further explaining the question and how its not related "Closed as duplicate: the first question that was immediately closed with no replies" OR! Google around, find SE link on issue, everybody is arguing about why the user wants to do it that why, convinces them to do…

everybody is arguing about why the user wants to do it that why

I fucking hate this, and it's been happening forever. It's those fucking assholes farming points for rep, who don't really want to help OP but still want their answer accepted.

Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

#282

Post by SnarkAsh »

wendyshu wrote: post #165
Dayshine wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, they were internally discussing a proposed Code of Conduct. I imagine mods are bound by an NDA, and management are choosing not to share.

Ah. Very frustrating to read complaints that omit key info. Would have been nice if they explained that they're under an NDA.

I agree it should have been clarified, but the initial intended audience was meta users who would be familiar. Elected moderators need to accept the https://stackoverflow.com/legal/moderator-agreement agreement before they're giving their privileges, and they have to agree not to disclose any information that they get obtain using their mod access, such as the private discussions between moderators and staff here.

It might not be legally binding, but Stack Overflow could plausibly delete their account as punishment.

Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

#283

Post by SnarkAsh »

mellosouls wrote: post #14
ykevinator wrote: post #10

The moderators don't add value.

I think this is untrue. Some do, some less so. Certainly there is a toxic tendency for some mods to become power crazed, assume a higher understanding of the world than the lowly non-mods and mod everything into oblivion. There is also sometimes a tribal back-slapping tendency that doesn't always weed out this nonsense but encourages it. I don't know if that is involved in this case.

There are a lot of very toxic moderators on the network.

As far as I recognize, none of them are among the resigned. They'll probably be more prominent now that reasonable kind people like Monica have been removed.

Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

#284

Post by Washuu »

chipotle_coyote wrote: post #269
9HZZRfNlpR wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole pronoun drama that is inherently American is tearing down international communities left and right despite it not being even an issue.

If it really wasn't even an issue, this wouldn't be coming up as often as it does, though, would it? To me, "if someone tells you they prefer singular 'they', use that" is non-controversial, just like "if someone tells you they go by 'Goldie,' use that" should be. Insisting "No, I am going to call you by the pronouns I believe are 'correct' for you" is akin to "No, your legal name is 'Marigold,' and I am going to cal…

If I started referring to the men at my work place with "she and her" I would be dropped at the human resources office for harassment. I do not believe it is unreasonable for a public forum such as Stack Exchange to enforce such a policy. If this change forces transphobic people to leave the platform then it is for the better.

Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

#285

Post by chipotle_coyote »

lonelappde wrote: post #273
chipotle_coyote wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it really wasn't even an issue, this wouldn't be coming up as often as it does, though, would it? To me, "if someone tells you they prefer singular 'they', use that" is non-controversial, just like "if someone tells you they go by 'Goldie,' use that" should be. Insisting "No, I am going to call you by the pronouns I believe are 'correct' for you" is akin to "No, your legal name is 'Marigold,' and I am going to cal…

It's StackEexchange. Pronouns don't matter. I've never seen a reason for this person pronouns to be used. No one's generalist are topic of conversation, and it's not a a gossip forum, so there is no reason to use third person pronouns to refer to users at all! If this is true, it's damning: > Now if I avoid pronouns altogether by sticking to proper names or disengaging from the individual, that's being considered an…

I read that quote, too, but here's the thing -- I can't imagine a Code of Conduct actually demanding that staff go out of their way to explicitly write other user's pronouns just for the sake of demonstrating that they will, in fact, use the pronouns the users are requesting.

If moderators are really, truly being directed the way that quote suggests, then yeah, that's a bad directive, whether or not the intentions are good. But some comments here suggested that this had to do with a trans moderator, not a trans user, which makes me suspect the pronouns in question may have been not on public-facing Stack Exchange but in moderator chats/forums. And if moderator X is pointedly avoiding ever "engaging" with moderator Y when the position requires it, then that's going to be a personnel problem.

Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

#286

Post by chipotle_coyote »

Washuu wrote: post #284
chipotle_coyote wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it really wasn't even an issue, this wouldn't be coming up as often as it does, though, would it? To me, "if someone tells you they prefer singular 'they', use that" is non-controversial, just like "if someone tells you they go by 'Goldie,' use that" should be. Insisting "No, I am going to call you by the pronouns I believe are 'correct' for you" is akin to "No, your legal name is 'Marigold,' and I am going to cal…

If I started referring to the men at my work place with "she and her" I would be dropped at the human resources office for harassment. I do not believe it is unreasonable for a public forum such as Stack Exchange to enforce such a policy. If this change forces transphobic people to leave the platform then it is for the better.

I agree. As I mentioned to another commenter, I have a suspicion that the fired moderator was insisting that they be able to basically avoid interacting with a trans moderator, and that this is indeed an HR problem (or the equivalent when you're talking about volunteer moderators). I have a suspicion that when/if a new Code of Conduct is revealed for Stack Exchange it's not going to be particularly controversial except with the crowd who gets up in arms at anything that says "no bigotry" and "no harassment" (which the current COC actually already says).

Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

#287

Post by shakna »

Pfhreak wrote: post #219
csande17 wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read through the resignation notices linked from OP, and this one seems to provide some more detail: https://christianity.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/6718/b...

> If person A comes along and demands that I refer to them by their "preferred pronoun" (even if it is a mismatch for their genetic sex or the grammar of the language being spoken) and I refuse, that's considered an insult. Yep, there it is.

No, not really.

> Now if I avoid pronouns altogether by sticking to proper names or disengaging from the individual, that's being considered an insult too.

It seems like the new CoC requires that not only you don't disparage another's belief, which is fine and everyone agrees with, but you have to actively show that you agree with their point of view as well. You can't remain impartial.

Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

#288

Post by bigwavedave »

krallja wrote: post #278
SAI_Peregrinus wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The one case where I think it makes sense to say "Don't do that" unequivocally is with security issues. Cryptography SE gets a decent number of people asking some variant of "how do I implement " to which the only correct answer is "Don't do that. It's unsafe."

Home Improvement is another good one where “STOP IMMEDIATELY” is a good answer: https://diy.stackexchange.com/a/174646/35432

The really funny thing is that the OP of that question ignored absolutely everything being suggested, finished the project himself, and then posted an answer saying as much on his own question (yeah, an actual answer as opposed to adding an "edit" to his OP!), never selected a best answer, and then mods closed the post. So now any DIY'er who encounters the same thing OR even worse encounters something different but still thinks it's the same thing will believe it's perfectly safe to roll the dice and continue the project on their own, likely killing themselves and/or loved ones. I don't have sympathy for them, but I sure do for their families.

Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

#289

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

sireat wrote: post #45

What I am curious why haven't we seen a quality mashup of a SE site? Some sort of interesting curation/filters etc. Even the new CC-share-alike allows commercial mixins https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/ . So being that SE started with SO and thus heavy programming emphasis there should be a plethora of interesting mashups. Instead the only SE content derived sites have been banal copies.

Google will kill it like the Wikipedia clones.

Re: A large number of Stack Exchange mods resigning over new policies

#290

Post by hapless »

The policy in question appears to be affirmatively requiring moderators not to (deliberately) mis-gender trans people, or allow user content to do the same.

All these ex-mods wrote these coy essays with discussions of free will and human rights in order to avoid discussing the issue at hand.

Trans people are surely a more important part of the StackExchange community and business than a few unpaid volunteers.

I am not sorry that Monica’s feelings were hurt by a demand for basic human decency.

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