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Facebook, WhatsApp Will Have to Share Messages With U.K.?

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Re: Facebook, WhatsApp Will Have to Share Messages With U.K.?

#281
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, the chat log backup basically renders WhatsApp completely insecure. They also constantly nag you inside the app to enable it. This is how they caught Michael Cohen (and presumably others). Unfortunately Signal does it, too.

Signals backups are encrypted.

How are they restored? Is it password-encrypted?

Re: Facebook, WhatsApp Will Have to Share Messages With U.K.?

#282
post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I don't agree that your argument was high-quality: Paul Graham: I think it's ok to use the up and down arrows to express agreement. Obviously the uparrows aren't only for applauding politeness, so it seems reasonable that the downarrows aren't only for booing rudeness. It only becomes abuse when people resort to karma bombing: downvoting a lot of comments by one user without reading them in order to subtract ma…

Thanks for clarifying and stating your opinion about the quality of my comment. However, seems a bit too broad-stroke to use downvoting for both the (lack of) quality of the comment and to express disagreement.

I do not personally have downmod capabilities, but I don't think it is necessarily too broad: If you interpret it as "People shouldn't read this", it seems reasonable.

Re: Facebook, WhatsApp Will Have to Share Messages With U.K.?

#283
post #173

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

I believe the courts have ruled previously that your speech is not limited just because the government has access to it. Otherwise wiretaps would be illegal already. This is just an extension of wiretap law. In both cases they need to be fought from another angle than freedom of speech, because we've already lost that battle.

If I wish to send you, jedberg, a message that looks like:

C8hWgwo5YeC5ojiOaDe3JVaLev+3zaZDfRVTAjvqNCA=

("Jedberg is thoughtful.", encrypted with AES key jedberg).

I must be able to do so. To compel a backdoor is to make some speech illegal.

Re: Facebook, WhatsApp Will Have to Share Messages With U.K.?

#284

If the source code isn't available for audit by 3rd parties (or yourself), and you can't build it from source, then it was never really "secure" anyway. What lawmakers do or don't say is just noise. Platforms that rely on trust (in this case, trusting that FB isn't doing bad things) provide very weak guarantees about privacy/security. They could easily include a keylogger in WhatsApp and bypass the e2e encryption, fo…

Unless you have reproducible builds, having access to the source code can be deceiving.

Audits should start with the actual binary. Only if you can ensure that the binary was build from a specific source code and does not contain any other logic in there (i.e. it was build by a trusted compiler), you can happily skip the decompilation process and analyze that source instead.

Re: Facebook, WhatsApp Will Have to Share Messages With U.K.?

#285

The idea that moves like this will "keep us safe" is utterly preposterous; there are a multitude of other ways in which terrorists (or the boogeyman de jour ) could communicate - are the UK and US governments going to insist on backdooring IRC, Slack and face-to-face conversations? Are they going to outlaw encryption libraries? I truely fear for the future that western governments, in particular the 5 eyes members, a…

> Are they going to outlaw encryption libraries? Funny story about that, those used to be considered controlled munitions [0]. [0] http://www.treachery.net/~jdyson/crypto/tattoo.html

TBH, I thought encryption was still subject to ITAR rules and considered "munitions" in the US?

Re: Facebook, WhatsApp Will Have to Share Messages With U.K.?

#287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are they going to outlaw encryption libraries? Yes. Absolutely. That's the only logical endgame.

I've said this before, but you can't outlaw the maths. There's nothing stopping anyone from rolling their own encryption, using well documented algorithms. You'd need to literally outlaw Wikipedia. Hell, even one-time-pads could still be used by truly motivated bad actors that wanted to communicate securely.

[deleted]

Re: Facebook, WhatsApp Will Have to Share Messages With U.K.?

#289
post #234

The idea that moves like this will "keep us safe" is utterly preposterous; there are a multitude of other ways in which terrorists (or the boogeyman de jour ) could communicate - are the UK and US governments going to insist on backdooring IRC, Slack and face-to-face conversations? Are they going to outlaw encryption libraries? I truely fear for the future that western governments, in particular the 5 eyes members, a…

Still remember how one German Islamist terror group just used their web-email provider's draft feature. They never 'sent' anything. There are often quite simple ways to circumvent this kind of thing.

It's the same tactic that former CIA Director David Petraeus used to send messages to his mistress. It's been around for a while, so investigators look for it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2012/11/12...

Re: Facebook, WhatsApp Will Have to Share Messages With U.K.?

#290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in London.It has already gone way beyond of what Orwell could have ever imagined. However,despite of all the surveillance, London is the crime capital of the world.This is probably the best place for criminals,as unless you pull a machine gun on a crowd,not much will be investigated.

>>not much will be investigated. I live in the UK and I feel like this is the crux of the issue. I am an active member of a sports car forum in the UK and it's terrifying how little police does in case of theft, even when the house was broken into to get the keys. If you get someone to come out and write down a report that is a miracle in itself - in 90% of cases you are just given a case number and told to speak wit…

>It's a shell of a functional service.

I can't say this in any less of a politically charged way but 10 years of austerity will do that.

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