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Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end?

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Re: Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end?

#281

Post by takeda »

natrik wrote: post #199

In regards to the rest of the posts stating its because of lack of functionality rather than functionality, why not design and write tests (math tests specifically) so that no calculator is required. Core Calculus, Stats, etc. concepts are testable without exact numerical precision. Substitute variables if needed, or have end results allowable in non reduced formats.

I guess the only thing good in it is that parents (and maybe even grandparents?) can pass them on to younger generation like a family heirloom, and child won't even get anything outdated.

Re: Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end?

#282

Post by gowld »

You can already get a graphing calculator on your phone today. Desmos is interesting but their business model isn't going to fix the costs of anything, as many commenters have noted.

At best, Desmos is pushing the costs from students to the book-buying taxpayers. Schools can solve that problem more simply by just buying the caclulators themselves. A TI-89 calculator last for 20 years, $5/yr/student, no big deal, despite costing more than it should.

Re: Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end?

#283

Post by morpheuskafka »

swiley wrote: post #241
morpheuskafka wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the SAT you can use programs and notes (obviously you are not supposed to share test content, but there is no specific prohibited on the notes feature. I think the ACT says you are not supposed to somewhere in the instructions but they do not clear the calculators. Only time I've had them clear the calculators was for some state-mandated EOGs that you could do with your eyes closed. And it can't be that hard to bu…

> On the SAT you can use programs and notes That is definitely a new thing. I wasn't allowed to use a calculator at all when I took the test 4 years ago.

You may well be right--the test was given a top-to-bottom redesign in 2016, so you would have been just before that. Nowadays there is a calc active and calc inactive section, whereas the current ACT has one math section, all calc active.

Re: Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end?

#284

Post by travisjungroth »

rajibsingh wrote: post #267
morpheuskafka wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A microcontroller with a decent CPU (a Zilog Z80 in this case) could, given enough time, run some serious AES-256 encryption. The storage is minimal but it could be good enough. Of course, you could always use a paper one-time pad, and if you can get the pad distributed without interception, there's no way they can ever break that.

once you've gotten to this level, you're pretty much guaranteed an A regardless

Not sure if you caught the convo swapped to prison lol

Re: Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end?

#285

Post by filleduchaos »

jacobolus wrote: post #254
thayne wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For higher level math classes that means that the students have to spend more time doing mundane things like arithmetic and graphing rather than using the higher level skills they are being tested on.

“Higher-level math classes” do not need “mundane things like arithmetic” at all. If there’s any appreciable quantity of arithmetic involved, that’s a clear sign that you aren’t dealing with a “higher-level math class”.

Before jumping to pedantry, consider that "higher-level" here is relative (we are talking about high school students).

Re: Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end?

#286

Post by madengr »

wlesieutre wrote: post #266
gnicholas wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember writing programs for my TI-85, and I learned those formulas better than if I'd just memorized them for the test. I don't think our teachers had any rules about this stuff, and they probably didn't even know it was possible. I think the bigger "loophole" is the ability to quickly solve simultaneous and and quadratic equations very easily using built-in functions on the calculators. This saves real time on t…

The TI-89 is definitely not fair in a calculus class because it can solve most of the problems for you

Back when I was in calc, you actually had to show your work, so a calculator was pointless.

Re: Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end?

#287

Post by toomanybeersies »

jacobolus wrote: post #250
cydonian_monk wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cheat-sheets are also far more "real world" than the fake environment many schools cling to. I don't know a single practicing engineer that doesn't have a note scribbled somewhere. My engineering school recognized this decades ago and adjusted accordingly. Now the math department? They were a different story. No calculators. Period. Ever. Made higher-level calculus... interesting. Thankfully I'd already had it in hig…

> Now the math department? They were a different story. No calculators. Period. Ever. Made higher-level calculus... interesting. There is no reason for any math course at any level to ever need a calculator, period. The point of math courses is learning to think, not learning to avoid fat-fingering tiny buttons or learning the specific crappy interface of some anachronistic antique machine. Without an electronic calc…

The odd thing about my exams at high school (in New Zealand) is that although you were allowed to use a graphing calculator, you still had to show your working. So you'd plug the numbers into your trusty Casio graphing calculator, get the answer, then still have to work out the answer anyway.

In theory that means that you could use your graphing calculator to verify your answer. But in practice, people ended up spending too long trying to fiddle with their calculator, not knowing how to use it properly, and getting the wrong answer in their calculator but the right answer when they did it by hand, getting flustered that they didn't match, and crossing out their correct answer.

Re: Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end?

#288

Post by toomanybeersies »

lr4444lr wrote: post #188
znpy wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The funny thing is to an extent, the performance of the student seems to be inversely proportional to the density of the cheat-sheet. This brings back the memory of the circuit theory exam. You could bring a cheatsheet but it was mostly useless. The test had very simple numbers (1, -1, 2, 1/2, -i or things like that) because the professor didn't want to be bothered checking complex formulas and the difficulty was m…

You could use the Matrix operations common on standard graphing calculator to cheat through a first semester circuits course, and with a little basic programming make a command line prompt that any idiot could fill in to get the right answers. I don't know if most eng. students realize this at the time they take linear circuits, though.

You can also just do matrices by hand. I always found them quite easy once you got the hang of them, very easy and methodical.

Re: Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end?

#289

Post by Invictus0 »

joezydeco wrote: post #43
sct202 wrote: post #33

How is there not a giant 2nd hand marketplace of TI graphing calculators for super cheap? Like after 30 years of basically producing a functionally identical product that few people need after college, there should be cheap used graphing calculators everywhere.

There is. I bought my son's TI-84 on eBay for 1/3 of the retail price. There are plenty in desk drawers of graduated kids, but they're also pretty beat up. In particular, the display seems to be built very cheaply and prone to damage.

That hasn't been my experience. I've had my TI-84 for 9 years and that thing took quite a beating. Still works perfectly today: can't say that for all the phones I've had in that time.

Re: Is the era of the $100 graphing calculator coming to an end?

#290

Post by ronsor »

clamprecht wrote: post #141
russfink wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would they care about a calculator?

Non-programmable calculators were fine - computers were not. A programmable calculator is basically a computer. In a computer you could store data that they couldn't access (encryption, even if it's very basic). Could be a list of gambling debts, escape plans, or other horrors. Most prison rules are "written in blood", so to speak.

Too bad you can do encryption using pen and paper (even RSA).
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