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No More Cheap Shipping for Chinese Sellers

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Re: No More Cheap Shipping for Chinese Sellers

#281

Post by jopsen »

ComputerGuru wrote: post #99
wnkrshm wrote: post #22

So what does that mean for US companies sending packages into countries that are part of the UPU (Edit: virtually all countries on Earth)? Can each country now refuseand set their own rates for transporting US parcels the last mile?

Probably, since everything is bilateral in agreements and negotiations. The point isn’t to minimize costs but to even out the playing field. US companies drop-shipping overseas will likely pay more, but that’s a consequence deemed overall worth it for the US local economy and market.

Isn't the US already disadvantaged here...

Last I ordered in the US (to Denmark) I paid 30USD flat fee for custom processing... On top of shipping and customs. (On an item worth 20 USD)

Re: No More Cheap Shipping for Chinese Sellers

#282

Post by jonathanmoore »

ryanackley wrote: post #247
jrockway wrote: post #126

The impression I get from that thread is that the dream here is now Americans can do what they do best, sit in the middle of transactions and collect rent. Previously, you could go to a Chinese website and have the Chinese factory send you a widget directly to your door. Now that will be too expensive, but hey we have a solution! An American will order a bunch of widgets in bulk, ship them over in a cargo ship, come…

Yes and no. Essentially this is already happening, except they are drop-shipping you the product for next to nothing direct from China. In fact, there is a small industry that revolves around this business model. The barrier of entry has just risen dramatically with this news. https://www.shopify.com/guides/dropshipping There are thousands of small drop-shipping businesses based in North America that depend on cheap…

I see this as a positive for Shopify. We work very closely with the platform, and over the years I have only seen a handful of direct-from-Chinese dropshipping sites that actually produce any revenue. Sure there are a lot of accounts that are opening with the hopes of a get-rich-quick scheme with low cost and risk.

I am certain that it is the legitimate businesses that are behind Shopify's success, and this will help with their reputation and give them a chance to focus their marketing on the right customers.

Re: No More Cheap Shipping for Chinese Sellers

#283

Post by mmsimanga »

South African experience. I buy a fair number of items on Aliexpress. Stuff you can never get in any store here. I use the Post Office to ship because courier is just too expensive. It takes 40 to 60 days to arrive. The hold up appears to be the SA Post Office. Since a few months ago the Post Office now charges approximately US$2 processing fee for each package. Its a fair charge I guess but there hasn't been any improvement in delivery times. Sometimes stuff arrives after so long that I have forgotten why I ordered it.

Re: No More Cheap Shipping for Chinese Sellers

#284

Post by TrackerFF »

jrockway wrote: post #126

The impression I get from that thread is that the dream here is now Americans can do what they do best, sit in the middle of transactions and collect rent. Previously, you could go to a Chinese website and have the Chinese factory send you a widget directly to your door. Now that will be too expensive, but hey we have a solution! An American will order a bunch of widgets in bulk, ship them over in a cargo ship, come…

We've experienced something similar here in Norway. The commerce unions have been lobbying hard to get rid of toll-free imports, which we have up until a certain limit. (Turns out that the majority of imported Chinese goods fall under that limit)

So they've been fighting tooth and nail to get that limit removed, which means that every single item gets slapped with additional brokerage fees and what-not, essentially rendering the purchases economically unsound (i.e a $1 item will cost close to $20).

They did the same in Sweden, and IIRC, the post offices ended up with storing hundreds of thousands of shipments that people refused to pick up, when they discovered the new fees.

Our unions have argued that it's good because

1) consumers get better consumer rights when purchasing from domestic retailers

2) shipping times are much lower

3) supports domestic economy - both e-commerce and postal services.

4) Better for climate, as less parcels = less transportation

But yeah, in the end, it's just one more link in the value-chain.

Re: No More Cheap Shipping for Chinese Sellers

#285

Post by tux1968 »

hashkb wrote: post #218
Pigo wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it is anecdotal, but whenever I order anything from China on Amazon, it takes exponentially longer to receive my product. Once I got Christmas items that I ordered in November the following March. There was no recourse when it happened either. I know it's a long distance, but it's substantially longer than orders I've made from other parts of the world. So I avoid purchasing from there.

It's very common to get (large) items via DHL from mainland China to SF in less than a week. The US simply doesn't manufacture the same set of items. Raising the cost to order items from China for political reasons will just hurt existing business. There's no alternative, I have a choice to pay more or not buy.

Where there is a profit to be made, businesses will grow to fill the gaps. Right?

Re: No More Cheap Shipping for Chinese Sellers

#286

Post by Kadin »

hashkb wrote: post #218
Pigo wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it is anecdotal, but whenever I order anything from China on Amazon, it takes exponentially longer to receive my product. Once I got Christmas items that I ordered in November the following March. There was no recourse when it happened either. I know it's a long distance, but it's substantially longer than orders I've made from other parts of the world. So I avoid purchasing from there.

It's very common to get (large) items via DHL from mainland China to SF in less than a week. The US simply doesn't manufacture the same set of items. Raising the cost to order items from China for political reasons will just hurt existing business. There's no alternative, I have a choice to pay more or not buy.

The US doesn't manufacture those items because it's cheaper to have them shipped from China. Raise the cost of manufacturing them there and importing them, and the balance changes.

The domestic vs. offshore production calculus is actually closer than a lot of people realize, in many instances. Often it's a choice between a highly-automated and capital-intensive production process in the US, vs. a manual process at a contractor in China. The combination of higher shipping and very low cost of capital in the US is a pretty good one.

Whenever someone tells you that it's impossible for the US to rebuild its manufacturing base, go take a look at factories in China: they're not that old (esp. the light industrial stuff). What was built in China in 20 years could be built in the US in the same amount of time or less, if the economic case was there. There's nothing magic about China, it's just a place where labor happened to be cheap at one point in time.

Re: No More Cheap Shipping for Chinese Sellers

#287

Post by mjevans »

dev_dull wrote: post #249
kevstev wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think most will agree that is a "fair" competitive advantage. What myself and I think most find problematic is that the USPS is actually subsidizing Chinese packages inbound to the US, to the point where its somehow cheaper to send from China than domestically. That may have made sense at some point when China was still in its embryonic phase of development, but they are well past the point where this is necessary…

The fact it went on this long is the confusing part to me. Why didn't anybody come and say "Hey! This is weird. Let's stop this" before 2016?

Probably a combination of Politics, not-rocking-the-boat (generally), and a question like yours.

With globalization increasing as it has in the past few decades a lot of the old shipping and carriage agreements become counter productive.

Re: No More Cheap Shipping for Chinese Sellers

#288

Post by Kadin »

Scoundreller wrote: post #95
dev_dull wrote: post #75

> This is great news for U.S. sellers, especially eBay sellers. Exactly the intended consequence. Why should US taxpayers subsidize shipping costs for products to come from China? It made no sense at all in today's economy unless the only thing you care about is paying less for your goods regardless of the consequences, which I don't think is a majority position of adults today.

The actual consequence will be Chinese sellers using US warehouses and drop-shipping from there. Others send over a container with each ordered good and slap a local post’s label on it. Possibly that local post’s label is attached in China and the container just gets dropped off at a USPS DC by the private freight forwarder. It’s already fairly common. Overall, a few more US jobs, and maybe more USPS revenue for what…

Nothing wrong with that. If a Chinese company wants to ship things over in bulk, break them up here in the US and ship them via the USPS, more power to them. They'll need to incorporate in the US, pay taxes in the US, probably rent space in a US warehouse, and generally play by the same set of rules as a US company that buys stuff from China and imports it for sale would.

I'm all for having a level playing field; the UPU rates were anything but.

Re: No More Cheap Shipping for Chinese Sellers

#289

Post by awinder »

the-dude wrote: post #261
awinder wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FTA: "This is all related to the Universal Postal Union agreement that allows Chinese sellers to ship products to the U.S. for less than it costs us to ship to the same state." The USPS has been losing money on this arrangement for a long time, it's one of these things that has stuck around despite being a total embarrassment due to industry pressuring. There is no reason taxpayers should be subsidizing this -- in fa…

This is not limited to the US. I believe it is worldwide and it is certainly the same in The Netherlands. edit: I believe there has been some change recently, the 'ePacket' ? Which is not delivered to your door, but you have to fetch it at a postal point.

https://www.lawfareblog.com/withdrawal-universal-postal-unio... has a deep breakdown, I was just speaking to the consequences the USPS (which handles international mail in the US) felt from the price setting that occurs under UPU.

Re: No More Cheap Shipping for Chinese Sellers

#290

Post by hbosch »

magduf wrote: post #5

This actually sounds like a good thing. It costs Chinese shippers almost nothing to send stuff directly from China, while it costs me quite a lot to send stuff within the US, largely because I'm subsidizing all the Chinese shippers. Moreover, for me to send any parcel (even very small ones, like 2 oz.) outside the US costs a small fortune these days, again because I'm subsidizing the Chinese shippers.

I bought a A1 sized picture frame from a french seller for around $50 on Amazon. It was a total pain getting an affordable frame in A1 size, because the best we can get easily in America is a 24x36" which is just far enough off to be unusable.

When it arrived, it had some damage to the acrylic and I wanted to return it. Amazon Support said they would reimburse me up to $20 for shipping it back, but when I took it to UPS they wanted $370 just to ship it back.

I have no idea how shipping costs are determined. I'm sure the seller didn't pay $370 to send it to me.

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