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8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now

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Re: 8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now

#281

Post by codysan »

petra wrote: post #277
codysan wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think part of the problem here is when articles like that like to use titles such as: "Young women are getting richer, as young men get poorer- More millennial men are earning less, even with the gender pay gap in their favor, the U.S. Census Bureau reports" This isn't a men vs women thing. It's a young adult thing, and like you said it's something cultural and societal. The fact that young women are getting educat…

>> The fact that young women are getting educated is a victory for everyone, Sure, for those Women it's a victory, and many others in society. But for everyone ? I'm sure some people in society do lose from that extra economic competition and the lower status they get.

That's implying that those same people are being supplanted, and are therefor "losing" because of that. The issue, as I see it, is that society should already have a place for all young adults.

Re: 8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now

#282

Post by john_brown_body »

A focus on the mediums through which these shooters express their views misses the forest for the trees, which is that this is fundamentally a political problem.

There is an ascendant political ideology in the United States, and in the West more broadly, that is rooted in a fear that White supremacy is being eroded by immigration and demographic change, and that violence against minority populations is an acceptable response to these changes.

This ideology is promoted by the President and prominent members of the Republican Party and the party-affiliated media; government goon squads are used to harass and ethnically cleanse those populations; and "lone-wolf" paramilitaries terrorize them directly, while allowing their "respectable" enablers and ideological supporters some degree of plausible deniability.

The solution to this problem doesn't lie in technology or communication platforms or mental health awareness or anything like that. It lies in organizing politically to defeat the supporters of this ideology and take power away from its proponents.

Re: 8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now

#283

Post by shubb »

stefco_ wrote: post #262
skocznymroczny wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very hard to find a partner nowadays. In the past, people dated within the local community, so women were limited to their local dating pool. With the advent of online dating, women can afford to be choosy and pick from guys all over the country, if not even all over the world. As a result, many men that would have found someone in the past are going to be lonely nowadays. Now, the obvious reply to that is "but…

> This applies to a very small minority of men. The confident, attractive types with great bodies. An average woman will still get lots of attention on dating website and have a lot of guys to pick from, an average guy won't really get any attention on such websites. I don't know where you live/what dating pool you have experience with, but here are some contrasting anecdotal observations from NYC: 1) Straight women…

I don't know how far it generalises, but a lot of my early 30s female friends complain about how hard it is to find a long term relationship.

Dates are easy to get, but explicitly looking for a long term thing puts off a lot of guys because it's just not the expectation. There is pressure to hold off on deep conversations or say you're just looking for fun when that really isn't the case.

'sometimes I just tell the guy on the first date that I'm looking for someone to settle down with. I've never gotten a second after that'

Getting ghosted by mr right for the twentieth time and wondering what is wrong with you seems as self esteem destroying as not being able to get a date at all.

I guess tinder just wrecked dating.

Re: 8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now

#284

Post by solidsnack9000 »

cdata wrote: post #233
skocznymroczny wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very hard to find a partner nowadays. In the past, people dated within the local community, so women were limited to their local dating pool. With the advent of online dating, women can afford to be choosy and pick from guys all over the country, if not even all over the world. As a result, many men that would have found someone in the past are going to be lonely nowadays. Now, the obvious reply to that is "but…

Self-confidence (or lack of it) is at least partially (some might say majorly) an artifact of upbringing and socialization. Women are more empowered to choose their own partners today than at other times in history, for sure. For much of human history, the privilege to choose one's partner was reserved for men (at times exclusively). You can certainly remark that today things are relatively worse for men (for some na…

For much of human history, the privilege to choose one's partner was reserved for men (at times exclusively).

Realistically, no -- parents and family were far more determinative than individual men. The just-so story where men have been free for tens of thousands of years while women were in bondage doesn't hold up. Most people in the middle ages were serfs. Men mostly didn't choose their professions or have preferential access to education because pretty much everyone carried forward the life of their parents and education was not widely available. The "men were free and women were restricted" narrative, in the specifics, compares the rights and privileges of women 500 years ago with those of the men of the 1980s.

Re: 8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now

#285

Post by solidsnack9000 »

antpls wrote: post #274

According to gunviolencearchive ( https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/ ), there were 251 mass shootings in the USA since the beginning of 2019. I don't know if this number is correct, but I just can't understand why guns are still allowed in USA.

It is actually unusual to count incidents where one person is killed as a mass shooting.

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting

They may be counting gang shootouts and stuff like that.

Guns are still allowed in the US because literally millions of Americans own guns, including semi-automatic rifles, and don't commit crimes with them. Many of them carry a gun concealed every day. Gun owners and concealed carry holders are actually less likely to commit a crime than the general population. In the US, we hold to the old common law idea that people who haven't done anything wrong shouldn't be punished.

Many more people die an "alcohol related" death in the US than in incidents related to guns but this receives nowhere near the attention.

Re: 8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now

#286

Post by username90 »

htns wrote: post #72
chvid wrote: post #15

Does anyone have an idea of how big 8chan and 4chan is in terms of users? Just from the visible activity in there I can see they must be massive. I think Slate is incorrect in describing them as expression of traditional neo-nazism. To me they are quite their own thing. Born out of Anime culture and gaming-culture becoming a playground for role playing, trash talking, trolling, real-life pranks degenerating into what…

I suspect it's simply that most jew-hating etc. jokes are unmotivated unless you hate jews. If you don't hate jews you find the jokes unfunny and tedious and stop browsing, and if you do you join in. The origins of 8/4chan barely matter.

This isn't true, mocking other cultures is very common and accepted in many parts of the world. In Sweden we have entire books full of jokes on how stupid Norwegians are and they have their own about stupid Swedes. And no, we don't hate each other. Anyhow, we stopped joking about Jews because it attracts racists and extremists, not because joking about groups isn't funny.

Re: 8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now

#287

Post by username90 »

brown9-2 wrote: post #241
davesmith1983 wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“It's right to learn, even from the enemy.” - Ovid. If you do not learn what motivates an extremist you will not be able to prevent other extremists from committing similar acts.

I think we are all well aware of what motivates these killers by now. Giving them more of a platform and audience won’t reduce their murders - it will bring them more followers.

Has anyone with an audience actually performed a mass shooting? I thought all of them were basically nobodies, not even their troll forum friends seems to care about them.

Re: 8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now

#288

Post by BoiledCabbage »

irvwash wrote: post #153
wyldfire wrote: post #13

I think that technology has brought us some truly marvelous things. But they also enable us to avoid casual social contact while enabling us to withdraw from meaningful social contact. Online anonymity permits endless Sybil attacks -- helping turn communities' frustration from anger and rage into violence. I'm guessing/assuming that 8chan is an anything goes censorship free community (like 4chan was/is?). And maybe i…

> I'm guessing/assuming that 8chan is an anything goes censorship free community (like 4chan was/is?). And maybe it's not explicitly in support of racist ideals but instead refuses to condemn any ideologies or discussion More or less. More so than 4chan. 8chan is like Reddit (and unlike 4chan) in that it allows anyone to set up a subcommunity that they can moderate however they like. Only illegal content (and nude/se…

Think about that for a min. Racism is allowed, but not Spam.

They will allow Racism, but actively moderate out Spam.

What type of joke is this? There is no hiding behind it, they intentionally and actively allow it to become a breeding ground for violent racists.

It's like what in the world did you guys imagining Al Qaeda recruiting msg boards l look like.

"No Al Qaeda msg boards have people claiming for death to Americans".

And 8chan boards are also doing the same thing. It's disgusting, but people are desensitized to how absurd it is.

Re: 8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now

#289

Post by satokema »

hedora wrote: post #276
irvwash wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

/pol/ is not an organization. It's a loose community of people, almost none of whom have done anything worse than expressing terrible opinions. Shootings are incentivized by /pol/ and frequently announced there, but they're not planned on /pol/. I don't think "/pol/ operatives" meaningfully exist.

Some /pol/ members have committed acts of mass murder. Al Queda is also a loose organization without explicit membership, etc. I don’t see any difference between the two organizational structures from an anti terror perspective (though Al Queda might sometimes organize humanitarian actions — Many Islamic terrorist groups have a recruiting arm that does this sort of thing, and I can’t keep them straight anymore)

Some U.S. citizens have committed acts of mass murder.

Al Queda is also a loose organization without explicit membership, etc.

I don’t see any difference between the two organizational structures from an anti terror perspective (though Al Queda might sometimes organize humanitarian actions — Many Islamic terrorist groups have a recruiting arm that does this sort of thing, and I can’t keep them straight anymore)

...do you see why your view is absurd? I can paint almost any group with that brush.

Re: 8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now

#290

Post by fwip »

blueboo wrote: post #101
fwip wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep - 8chan was started because even 4chan wasn't odious enough for them.

Or rather, the speech wasn’t “free” enough. > 8chan’s founder, Fredrick Brennan, created the site in response to what he sees as the ongoing and vast loss of free speech on the Internet. On 8chan, “anyone can say what they want and mean,” Brennan told the Daily Dot. > Brennan now calls 8chan a “free-speech-friendly 4chan alternative.” > He called 4chan “authoritarian” and accused it of turning into a soulless for-pro…

Yep, 8chan users wanted to be shittier than even 4chan would let them be.
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