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I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

nytimes.com

281–290 of 358 posts

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#281
post #109

"Pick your sacrifice" applies here. I think you need to know where your red lines are in your career and family life. Having a schedule helps you keep on track. Other than that, my Dad once said something along the lines of, "Life is a constant juggling act; you have your work ball, your family ball etc. However, your family ball is made of glass, so if you drop it, it will shatter and you may not be able to put it t…

Why isn't the work ball made of glass? Isn't the glass ball of career a huge plank of the feminist movement

It’s easier to get another job than another family.

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#282
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet they’re in college. Their parents having prioritized work over their kids undoubtedly will allow those kids to live an immensely better life than they would have otherwise. There’s millions of people in the world that would trade places with them in a heartbeat. One of my fears is that my kids will learn these bad American ideas from media. I saw my daughter watching a Disney show (Bunk’d), where a high achieving…

Your argument is getting perilously close to "good things aren't good because some people survive without them." China is eating our lunch? Excuse me?

I think birthday celebrations teach kids to be self-centered, but that’s neither here nor there. (And I lost that battle with my wife as to my own kid anyway.)

But the folks criticizing the article aren’t just asserting that these things are good. They’re claiming that not having these things is so damaging that a woman who prioritizes her career over attending birthday parties and school events is a bad mother. But many children grow up to be perfectly well adjusted despite not having those things. That is evidence of the fact that, even if those things are “good,” they’re not “essential.”

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#283
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith. " https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html (We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20315373 )

Huh, a flagged comment, that's a first, sorry. I was really responding to what I saw as the GP breaking other guidelines by not responding to the article, so I quoted the only relevant part of their comment and the appropriate part of the article. I suppose I should have flagged their comment instead if I thought it was bordering on off-topic?

You should flag a comment if it's breaking the site guidelines, but it doesn't break the site guidelines to go off topic. Sometimes off-topic comments can be interesting. It's when they become generic tangents that they break the guidelines. If you reread https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html you'll see that that the line is drawn carefully that way.

For example, someone sharing their personal experience about a marginally-related point may be off topic but isn't generic. But turning a thread like this into an argument about, say, the men's rights movement (as happened elsewhere)—that's generic and therefore breaks the guidelines.

A less clear case is the subthread right here that goes into a long discussion about birthdays and Jehovah's Witnesses. That's pretty off topic, and crossing perilously toward religious flamewar. On the other hand, it was weird enough not to count as generic—except where it swerved into atheism vs. religion stuff at the end.

What we're trying to avoid is getting sucked into the black holes of the hottest controversies that online forums can't seem to resist but that people never have anything new to say about. That's the purpose of the rule. On HN, the organizing principle is intellectual curiosity, and there's no curiosity in repetition.

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#284
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Small correction -- members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (of which I am one) don't have to give up on caffeine. There were some people who taught and practiced that, but that is largely in the past. Even BYU, the church-owned school, now sells fully-caffeinated Coke on campus. This was a fairly recent development. As well, members are encouraged to avoid any media that includes sexually explicit…

As an atheist, that sounds terrible. Also there is some legit criticism: taken from wikipedia (where you can see the sources): It also warns members to "avoid independent thinking", claiming such thinking "was introduced by Satan the Devil" and would "cause division". Those who openly disagree with official teachings are condemned as "apostates" who are "mentally diseased". https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah%27s…

This crosses into religious flamewar. Please keep that far away from this site.

If you're wondering where the differences are, there are two critical ones. The GP's comment was mostly about personal experience, where your comment went generic—that's how we get boring flamewars. Had you shared personal experience in return, this might have been better. Second, your comment swerved into indignant rhetoric. When indignation levels spike up, the needle goes into the red for flamewar risk.

As a side point, I think you got your religions mixed up. That's a minor detail but it illustrates how generic the comment was. Generic comments on divisive issues are what we're most trying to avoid on HN, because they make discussion more repetitive and provoke other users into posting even more generically and indignantly (e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20317078).

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#285
post #133
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an atheist, that sounds terrible. Also there is some legit criticism: taken from wikipedia (where you can see the sources): It also warns members to "avoid independent thinking", claiming such thinking "was introduced by Satan the Devil" and would "cause division". Those who openly disagree with official teachings are condemned as "apostates" who are "mentally diseased". https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah%27s…

Sounds like present day mainstream media... e.g. if you “think independently” and decide that affirmative action is bad, you’re branded a “bigoted racist” or “sexist” or “nazi”

"Eschew flamebait. Don't introduce flamewar topics unless you have something genuinely new to say. Avoid unrelated controversies and generic tangents."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#286
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If you're intellectually driven then looking after two young children isn't fascinating. I've never understood this viewpoint - children are simply the most fascinating things! They're born with next to no inborn knowledge and yet have the potential to learn about quantum mechanics. Someone with the same potential would only have learned about fire some hundred thousands of years ago. In the early days you get to se…

On the scale of months and years children are amazing, and I agree it’s fascinating to watch as they develop into their own people. However, on the scale of hours and days they can be mind-numbingly boring, as anyone who’s played hide and seek with a four year old who repeatedly goes and hides in their bedroom cupboard can probably attest. I love my boy dearly, but I am so, so, bored of playing the first hour of Mine…

I don’t think parents were ever meant to play hide and seek with their children for hours on end, but to let them go play with the other 4 year olds and relatives in the village, give them bandaids and hugs when they fall, have them be back by sundown, feed them food and tuck them into bed by 8pm.

But in todays atomized and helicopter parenting with liability world, you can’t do that and thus parenting is a lot more work than it should be.

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#287
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet they’re in college. Their parents having prioritized work over their kids undoubtedly will allow those kids to live an immensely better life than they would have otherwise. There’s millions of people in the world that would trade places with them in a heartbeat. One of my fears is that my kids will learn these bad American ideas from media. I saw my daughter watching a Disney show (Bunk’d), where a high achieving…

And yet so many Chinese continue to come to the US, it’s almost as if this bad ideas actually make a happier society

Please don't take threads further into generic flamewar.

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#288

So has most of western society. Thus the birthrate cratering. Since this woman has two kids she's picking kids over job more than most people. She's simply more honest than most about the whole thing. I find the western disinterest in raising their own children (and having them) fascinating. There seems to be a widespread ideal of trying to leave a legacy through deeds rather than through your own children. Much of t…

The birthrate in USA has fluctuated between 1.7 and 2.1 for the past 50 years. It's higher now than in 1975. The racists are free to keep squeezing out as many kids as they want.

Could you please stop creating accounts to break the site guidelines with?

Your comment would be fine without the last sentence.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#289
post #177

I made the opposite choice. I left a 7 figure a year (but 70% travel) job to take a few years off with my kids. I'm under no illusion that my kids will be that much better for it, but I will be. I am consuming this time with just absolute relish. A relationship is the sum of small things. And driving them to school is part of that overall cumulative time that ... just... matters. For me. I'm sure the kids would be gr…

Nice thing to do if you can afford it Mr. Million Dollar man. Most people can't just throw a "7 figure a year" job away.

Please don't get personal in comments here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: I’ve Picked My Job over My Kids

#290
post #2

I love this article. Parents today spend more than twice as much time today with their kids today than fifty years ago: https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2017/11/27/parents-... . Fat lot of good that did the last couple of generations. Parents spend too much time apologizing for prioritizing their careers, and it’s particularly unfair to women. Studies repeatedly fail to show significant and durable results fr…

Why is it particularly unfair to women? Is a man's place in the home? TBH I see a lot more grousing over men prioritizing their careers in the advice columns and popular media today while women are exalted for going into the same soul crushing rat races (ie in this article) that men are told to spurn for the more important things in life.

Please don't post generically about classic flamewar topics. It leads to lower-quality discussion and kills curiosity.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

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