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Firefox 66.0.4 is out, fixes disabled add-ons

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Re: Firefox 66.0.4 is out, fixes disabled add-ons

#281
post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll be several revisions' worth of security patches behind. For an application that is usually one's main means of accessing the rest of the internet, that would be a deal-breaker for me.

In this case, I was more insecure being subjected to advertising networks (and the malware carried on them) because of Firefox's mistake which meant I wasn't able to load ublock origin. I'm also not sure how many of those "security patches" are intended to make my browsing experience safer, or simply meant to implement bizarre policies that might blow up in my face at any time (as this certificate issue has). It's a…

>I was more insecure being subjected to advertising networks

>2019

>not running your own ad network blocking DNS

Why even bother?

Re: Firefox 66.0.4 is out, fixes disabled add-ons

#282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who's fault is that, at the end of the day? Mozilla didn't have to structure their addon system in such a way that their (in)actions could disable the addons of every Firefox user on the planet . Mozilla did not have to abuse the studies mechanism (also on by default) to ship a workaround. Mozilla did not have to disable the option that would let me work around this problem by myself (which is going to cause me no en…

"Opt-out telemetry" creates precisely the scenario I describe, where the users who care most are least visible to Mozilla, at which point their needs would go unconsidered; no one knows they exist, how many of them there are, or why they're opting out. This remains true regardless of why , which negates your entire list of issues, replacing them with a simple question that is very difficult to answer: How could Mozil…

> How could Mozilla respect the needs of users who opt-out of Mozilla knowing they, and their needs, exist at all?

How about surveys or well, common sense?

I'm a tech oriented person who cares about privacy. I want software that is lightweight, configurable, with sensible defaults. For any features besides the basic functionality (in this case: browsing the web), I don't want to opt-out, I want to opt-in.

Privacy oriented means for me that the software I use doesn't send one bit of data that isn't necessary for its basic functionality. I use a "dumb phone" because of this. I never understood how anybody can think telemetry and privacy can co-exist.

I want a Firefox without Pocket, Send, Screenshot Tools, Sync, Clickz, any cloud based service. I only want a fast, lightweight browser that doesn't send any unnecessary data anywhere without me explicitly configuring it. That's a sensible default for me, really. Software used to be like that.

I'd also like to configure when my software looks for updates. My Linux distro let's me do that.

And it would be awesome if all other functionality (like Send/Sync/Pocket, etc.) is available via optional plugins, or in another "full-featured" version of Firefox. The deluxe edition or whatever.

I believe I'm not alone with these ideas about software. In discussions about Firefox these things always come up. There are github projects [1,2] with 1600 and 1200 stars about hardening Firefox. People care about privacy. It's not hard to find this part of the userbase.

The idea that you can't create software for your users without telemetry, is what leads Mozilla to disregard their privacy oriented users in the first place. It's depressing.

And even if I allowed telemetry on my system Mozilla wouldn't learn anything about what I wrote here. It's useless.

1: https://github.com/pyllyukko/user.js/ 2: https://github.com/ghacksuserjs/ghacks-user.js

Re: Firefox 66.0.4 is out, fixes disabled add-ons

#283

I was already a bit mad at them for removing RSS support and claiming their proprietary service that's built in is an alternative, now their proprietary service keeps working (presumably, I didn't use it but it's not an addon so I doubt it's signed the same way) and I can't use the RSS addon. I know this was a mistake, but I can't help but be mad that their proprietary built in stuff effectively gets a free pass and…

LiveMarks really is a fantastic addon to bring back Live Bookmarks functionality. That said, I've always been a fan of native browsers for their inherent advantages. Never felt the desire to use anything else, unless it has significant usability improvements. Phoenix/Firefox was always that browser for me. I usually suggest people use their native browser (Edge/Safari), and if they want an upgrade, to go to Firefox. With all of these recent debacles, it would be hard for me to not suggest the new Chromium-based Edge to Windows users and crossplatform.

Re: Firefox 66.0.4 is out, fixes disabled add-ons

#284

Good move, congrats on surviving the second armag-add-on finally BUT I won't be moving from chromium until Firefox (or Mozilla) explains: - why am I opted-in to a Studies program in Firefox's default state? (With no explicit information about what it is) - what does app.normandy.enabled switch do and why is its default value is True and doesn't change to false when I explicitly state I don't want to be in the Studies…

> why am I opted-in to a Studies program in Firefox's default state? (With no explicit information about what it is)

I came here to mention exactly this. I don't mind the certificate issue (as long as there is a post mortem and they learn something from it).

I was wondering how my addons came back automatically (without me having to upgrade to 66.0.4) and I found out about this studies thing, which I never consented to. I feel violated. And the problem is, what browser am I supposed to use from now on? Lynx? Sigh

ETA: I am (was) a proud Firefox user since it was called Firebird, and changing browsers never crossed my mind before (even if Chrome felt faster some times). At this exact moment, I have zero trust on Mozilla, just like I have zero trust on Google (Chrome). Extremely frustrated and disappointed.

Re: Firefox 66.0.4 is out, fixes disabled add-ons

#285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google Chrome uses the RLZ tracking identifier for some installations. "RLZ gives us the ability to accurately measure the success of marketing promotions and distribution partnerships in order to meet our contractual and financial obligations." https://blog.chromium.org/2010/06/in-open-for-rlz.html

While not exactly A/B testing as discussed above, that's still a relevant link. Thank you for sharing.

No problem. There's more information in the Google Chrome Privacy Whitepaper:

https://www.google.com/intl/en/chrome/privacy/whitepaper.htm...

Re: Firefox 66.0.4 is out, fixes disabled add-ons

#286
Is a more robust way around this to use a trusted timestamping service?

This is the way code-signing on Windows works, and allows you to prove that code was signed by a valid certificate while it was in its validity date - so even once the certificate expires, the code will still run as long as the cryptographic timestamping signature is valid.

Re: Firefox 66.0.4 is out, fixes disabled add-ons

#287
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The past two years with Firefox have made me gradually dislike Chrome less. Yesterday, I pulled the plug and switched to Vivaldi completely. I wouldn't be surprised if Firefox 75-or-so is based on Chrome anyway.

I've seen people expecting such a switch since... Firefox 6 or so? I wouldn't hold my breath.

Edge's switch to Chromium was a bit surprising, even if it makes complete sense to do so on both the browser and OS level. At this point, I'm not sure if Mozilla's involvement with the Chromium project would be such a bad thing. In regards to web standards and freedom, having Google, Microsoft and Mozilla having their hand in that pot doesn't seem a lot different from each maintaining their own.

Re: Firefox 66.0.4 is out, fixes disabled add-ons

#288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will be possible to roughly deduct this from the following statistics during the next days/weeks: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-us/firefox/addon/adblock-plus/... https://data.firefox.com

Note that these statistics would, presumably, exclude all users who disable telemetry in Firefox. Since many of those outraged at the interruption to addons seem to overlap frequently with those who object to and disable telemetry and studies on principle, their departure over this incident could well have no impact whatsoever on the metrics you linked above. It must be a nightmare for the Firefox team to have a mino…

Their departure where? Considering the group in question I can't imagine them wanting to switch to Chromium or Opera.

Re: Firefox 66.0.4 is out, fixes disabled add-ons

#289

Good move, congrats on surviving the second armag-add-on finally BUT I won't be moving from chromium until Firefox (or Mozilla) explains: - why am I opted-in to a Studies program in Firefox's default state? (With no explicit information about what it is) - what does app.normandy.enabled switch do and why is its default value is True and doesn't change to false when I explicitly state I don't want to be in the Studies…

> why am I opted-in to a Studies program in Firefox's default state? (With no explicit information about what it is) I came here to mention exactly this. I don't mind the certificate issue (as long as there is a post mortem and they learn something from it). I was wondering how my addons came back automatically (without me having to upgrade to 66.0.4) and I found out about this studies thing, which I never consented…

You could just turn off all studies in Firefox. It's a simple option:

https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/shield#w_to-opt-out-of-...

Re: Firefox 66.0.4 is out, fixes disabled add-ons

#290
I've always been a fan of native browsers, and have been using Chromium-based Edge[0] as my daily driver at work. While I wasn't one who was impacted by the extensions change, The removal of Live Bookmarks really stung for me, as I've used that feature since 2002.

Container support (with Containerise), a dedicated search bar to use with DDG bangs, and easy 'send tab to device' is what has me holding on today.

But I have to admit that Microsoft's eventual offering is pretty appealing, a Chromium-based browser with the advantages of Chrome's compatibility and Edge's conservative battery sipping. I'm one who has always liked and even preferred Microsoft's products and their integration on as objective of a basis as a human can muster. Even if it's in different aspects, I think they're going to probably have Edge become a package equally appealing to the things I love about Firefox. Edge/Safari are definitely where I'll go if Firefox really starts circling the drain, but having been on FF since it was Phoenix, it'll take more than this debacle.

[0]https://www.microsoftedgeinsider.com/en-us/download/

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