Live data from Hacker News

Austrian government seeks to eliminate internet anonymity, with severe penalties

derstandard.at

281–290 of 292 posts

Re: Austrian government seeks to eliminate internet anonymity, with severe penalties

#281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I made a map with all European countries requiring an ID: https://old.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/9ziqfi/european_cou...

Turkey goes further and requires registration of phones, too.

Turkey is not an European country. Having a few percents of the territory in Europe does not move you to Europe.

Re: Austrian government seeks to eliminate internet anonymity, with severe penalties

#283
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish geeks realize that VPN is not the solution for stupid/doubtful laws. They should not exist in first place.

If the majority genuinely want such laws, what's your solution?

If the majority has become tyrannical in their thinking toward the minority when it comes to human rights, then get the hell out of the country or jurisdiction in question if you can. Especially if it has moved beyond the initial typically mostly benign stages.

Authoritarianism and aggressive statism broadly, generally prompt opportunistic brain drain for exactly that reason.

The US poached enormous amounts of talent from backwards, regressive European nations for more than a century previously.

Re: Austrian government seeks to eliminate internet anonymity, with severe penalties

#284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the majority genuinely want such laws, what's your solution?

If the majority has become tyrannical in their thinking toward the minority when it comes to human rights, then get the hell out of the country or jurisdiction in question if you can. Especially if it has moved beyond the initial typically mostly benign stages. Authoritarianism and aggressive statism broadly, generally prompt opportunistic brain drain for exactly that reason. The US poached enormous amounts of talent…

Problem is, eventually you run out of places to run away to.

Re: Austrian government seeks to eliminate internet anonymity, with severe penalties

#285
post #277
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a scary idea. I want to say that its unlikely to happen but with the political climate right not... Anybody got an ideas, on what we are supposed to do when that happens

This is going to be an unpopular opinion but I'm hoping someone can explain why I'm wrong. I actually would really welcome online activities no longer being anonymous. I feel like a large part of why people on the internet are so terrible to one another is that there's really no accountability because of the anonymity. This is true in many areas including hate speech or posting illegal/inappropriate material. I suppo…

> I feel like a large part of why people on the internet are so terrible to one another is that there's really no accountability because of the anonymity.

Sounds plausible until you consider that many of the worst comments are written by real people logged in using their real Facebook accounts -

... and some of the best forums online don't demand anything but a username and password like here.

IMO real name policies are way less effective than some people want you to think, and they'll effectively prevent certain minorities from participating in online debates.

Re: Austrian government seeks to eliminate internet anonymity, with severe penalties

#286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a lot harder to kill a pedestrian with a bike than with a car, though. Cars are a lot more lethal than bikes, and most countries have road designs that are bike-hostile. You have to be a very assertive and alert cyclist there to not get hurt. That is to say, consideration and respect goes both ways.

> It's a lot harder to kill a pedestrian with a bike than with a car, though. That's completely irrelevant. It's about the "rules do not apply to me because you can't catch me" attitude, same as with people who harass others online without remorse by using various anonymity tools. Removing this possibility would fix it the accountability problems to a great extent and make them behave more responsibly, in line with o…

Where I live road law is about safety, not about "attitude correction". Culture is the thing that fosters positive attitudes and respect. You really think cyclists are trying to bully you when they run a light?

What's the limit, skateboards with license plates? Why not subdermal RFID implants to catch people jaywalking? I mean, in the end a human body is just another vehicle for consciousness.

We have people that jump in front of your car without paying any attention to their safety, almost begging to be hit. Informally we call them "jaywalk terrorists". Their ignorance is a harsh punishment by itself, to them.

Re: Austrian government seeks to eliminate internet anonymity, with severe penalties

#288

It is surprising. Even here, in Russia, we don't have such laws working yet. And I wonder, what Austrian authorities are going to do with foreign platforms like Telegram, which are unlikely to comply? Russian government has been trying to block Telegram using DPI for a year and didn't succeed. What about Twitter? Reddit? > In addition, web platforms would be required to appoint a liaison in Austria who would be respo…

Russia requires foreign owned services to host data about Russian users inside of Russia. That way the data can be retrieved by the government and used to de-anonymize users. [1] Data localisation is an up and coming regulatory thing, and more countries are picking it up. [2] Having a handle doesn't make you anonymous. [1] https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2019/01/russia-tries-to-... [2] https://www.atlanticcouncil…

Although this requirement has been in effect for 3 years, foreign services ingore it. For example, recently, Facebook was fined for an amount equivalent to about 50 dollars for not providing information about users' data localization and now has 9 more months to solve this problem [1]. In Facebook's case it is easier to pay the fine than transfer the data into Russia.

LinkedIn is blocked under the same law though.

Telegram is officially blocked in Russia (for not providing access to users' messages), but it works without any special setup.

> That way the data can be retrieved by the government and used to de-anonymize users.

That was probably the intention of lawmakers but there is no requirement to keep the data unencrypted.

[1] https://www.apnews.com/5db72dfa04e401ffec784c8a18ce9b7a

Re: Austrian government seeks to eliminate internet anonymity, with severe penalties

#289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I do prefer to keep a more general perspective in view, regarding the history of political ideas. If we just focus on the accidental socio-historical situation, we may miss the general spectrum. E.g., in the 1970s and '80s, there was actual left-wing terrorism or individuals who played with the idea of a substantial change. However, it has been decades since we did see such things even sparsely in public…

In other words: If there's only an ever-shifting relative spectrum, plain conservatives were the fascists du jour at the opposing end, most of the time. This is certainly not what you want. It may be worth treating political opinions fairly for what they are. Notably, this was about "left-leaning" as a qualifier for hate speech, which may be subject to prosecution (compare the original comment).

I find it interesting you put words in my mouth. That actually is exactly what I want. I’m sorry if you don’t like it but I’ve watched conservatives destroy my country for the last 30 years so will pardon me if my view of them is a little less historical and a little more practical. I believe the international conservative movement is posion.

Re: Austrian government seeks to eliminate internet anonymity, with severe penalties

#290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Putting 2 innocent people through systems designed to assume they are guilty is worse than 1 guilty person being able to be anonymous. Look at what the TSA has done. They’ve wasted so much time and created a massive invasion of physical privacy (i.e. someone touching your private parts in public) and not only did they never catch anything, they fail 90% of penetration tests. There is some positive intent here but in…

> Putting 2 innocent people through systems designed to assume they are guilty is worse ... This is not about being guilty, it's about being accountable for your actions, just like you are everywhere else. In Austria and Germany, people riding bicycles are considered the rudest on the streets. Everybody is anonymous to other participants until an accident happens, but only bicycles have no number plates, so they usua…

I ride a bicycle as my primary means of transport. I strictly obey traffic laws, and on almost every[0] journey I see motorists breaking traffic laws. Where I live, it's illegal to cross a solid white line that borders your lane to overtake somebody unless they are traveling at less than 10mph. I never travel that slowly, but motorists routinely cross solid white lines to overtake me. I estimate only about 1% of motorists obey the law.

To be fair, only a minority of those illegal overtakes are actually dangerous, but the same is true of most traffic law violations by cyclists.

[0] Extremely short journeys, or journeys very late at night, might encounter no motor traffic in a position to break the law.

Post reply on HN