Live data from Hacker News

To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

nationalgeographic.com

281–290 of 344 posts

Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#283

If our species is to survive this century we have to get out of our cars. There is no way to sustainably build billions of electric cars- we need to consider that our existing ICE fleet needs to simply be retired and not replaced. Cars are one of the ultimate symbols of the consumption that needs to end if we are to address climate change. Between the asphalt and concrete needed to build infrastructure for them to th…

Any solution which requires people to give up convenience in the name of saving the environment is dead on arrival. This is human nature, we have never before managed to conserve our way out of a problem, we innovate our way out of it or we will die trying.

Well said! I'm glad someone understands humanity.

Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#284
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't imagine how bad public transport must be to increase your commute time by an order of magnitude . I use public transport precisely because I value my time - it takes longer(around x1.5) than using a car, but that time is relaxing, can be used to read a book, listen to a podcast or just order your thoughts. Time spent in a car is stressful and requires your focus and attention. I'm not sure what kind of popula…

It depends on local details. In most large cities public transit assumes you live in the suburbs and work downtown. Jobs are moving to the suburbs, to get to them means a ride downtown, and then a ride back out. I know of people with a 4 mile commute who drive (why they don't bike is a good question) because they bus ride would be 3 hours each way.

As a Chicago native, I can definitely see a case for like a north-south suburban Metra line, being potentially amazing. But our rail system primarily piggybacks on freight lines which all are concerned about going to/from Chicago proper.

I don't feel buses are nearly as productive because of traffic. There are some nifty routes around Chicago where buses are allowed to drive the shoulder in traffic jams, and hence, do better than cars on travel time, but the north-south suburban expressway doesn't have that arrangement.

Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#285
Hi HN! I'm the Director of Engineering at UrbanFootprint (https://urbanfootprint.com/), one of the companies featured in the National Geographic article. Peter Calthorpe is a cofounder of the company. The El Camino corridor is highlighted at the beginning of the National Geographic article. If you want to dig into more details on that please take a look at our blog post on the topic from last year (https://urbanfootprint.com/can-one-street-solve-the-san-fran...).

At UrbanFootprint, we provide data and tools for urban planners to assess and compare the impacts of land use and transportation decisions. A basic use case is a city updating its General Plan, which would start with a forecast of how much population growth is anticipated / needs to be accommodated. A planner then needs to assess where new residents will live, work, shop, and play. Perhaps even more essential, how are people going to travel between all of these activities? Will the new growth be auto-dependent, transit-focused, walkable? Is any of the existing or planned development in hazard areas such as flood of wildfire? What are the energy and water use impacts of the plans?

We’re using Python and Postgres/PostGIS on the backend to answer these questions and a React SPA to serve it up and make it interactive in a browser. It's a lot of fun getting our hands dirty with data describing the physical world in which we live in now, in addition to modeling the future of cities.

If this type of work interests you please get in touch - email me at hn@urbanfootprint.com. I'm always interested in hearing from folks who want to use technology to improve cities.

Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#286
post #41
post #31

I’d argue that cities will shrink over time. It’s going to become easier for people to live in rural areas. I don’t think there is some magic formula to manage the inevitable congestion (not just traffic). Edit: It’d also be interesting to see the environmental impact of mega cities. And what about cities like Portland where they have put in a lot effort to plan around growth? Is it working?

It's not happening though. My parents live in a beautiful part of the rural UK and have super-fast fibre to the premises internet, next day Amazon prime available, online food shopping from 4 or so supermarkets locally, etc. Basically everything you'd think you'd need to live away from the city, but still the area is depopulating rapidly. Younger people don't want a life of car dependancy and social isolation.

Social isolation is everything. In a city not only are there a lot of existing things to do, a restaurant or bar might only be around for a couple years if it's bad and the commercial space is in demand, so a new exciting thing comes to fill the space rather than a "for lease" sign for decades like you'd see in a sparse area.

Take a look at a typical suburb. Where do you even walk? Sometimes the complexes wind and wind a mile or two before you hit the exit of the suburb, a 45 mph road with no sidewalks. Then it's another 2-3 miles until you hit the strip mall, then 500yds of parking lot before you hit the door of the apple bees. There's not even any greenery to enjoy, all the woods have been clear cut for housing or agriculture; living at low density like that scars the environment for miles. I'd take dial up and packages available in 40 days to ensure I'm at a safe arms length from suburban bleakness.

Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#287

I'm not sure these articles are good for my mental health. I live in Utah Valley, which has the worst air quality in the United States. I'm on the train right now as I type this, it takes twice as long for me to get to work this way but i'm trying to increase train usage. People here are just so invested in making their hour long commutes with their gigantic trucks. Trucks are ridiculously expensive even before you f…

Utah Valley (and Salt Lake Valley) trap pollution. There's no getting away from that. But the worst air quality in the US? After Geneva Steel closed? Worse than, say, San Bernardino, where the wind tends to trap LA's smog? I'm kind of skeptical. (Or do you have hard data, which I admit that I don't?)

Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#288
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not happening though. My parents live in a beautiful part of the rural UK and have super-fast fibre to the premises internet, next day Amazon prime available, online food shopping from 4 or so supermarkets locally, etc. Basically everything you'd think you'd need to live away from the city, but still the area is depopulating rapidly. Younger people don't want a life of car dependancy and social isolation.

I think there's a chance that remote working might really take off. From a cost-saving perspective it makes so much sense - we already went from offices -> open plan, if we go from open plan -> remote being the new norm, suddenly there will be jobs everywhere , and that will change everything

Not every job can be remote if people need shared equipment or resources. There's a lot of intangible benefits to having everyone working nearby. I get a lot of help from people just because they are nearby and I can ask them a question about something or their advice, and I think that alone outweighs for me being able to sit on my couch in sweatpants with my laptop.

Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#289

Cars are not the cause of the issue with cities, cars are symptom of bad zoning and regulation which more times than not prevents owners of property from doing what they want. when every new building requires effectively bring special interest groups, politicians, regulatory boards, and unions, their due is it a surprise cities are not getting better. they are serving a politically connected elite, not the people who…

In cites like Los Angeles, cars are part of a feedback loop which makes them both symptom and cause. Los Angeles is low-density partly because it spends lots of land on roads and parking lots. It needs lots of roads and parking lots because everyone drives. And everyone drives because the city is low density.

The solution is to bite the bullet and build the rails. They didn't build highways to already existing suburbs in the valley or where wildfires have been roasting for 100s of years; those things popped up because the land was empty and the highway made building possible. If you build the rails and zone the area by the rail for density, a developer looking to drop a 15 story apartment is going to want to put it by the rail. Even better if you nix the rule about having to build parking if they build close enough to the rail. You can't do anything without the rail being built first.

Re: To build the cities of the future, we must get out of our cars

#290

I live in Los Angeles; The Mecca for the automobile. Back in the early 20th century, the city was trying really hard to invest in public transportation through the use of electric street cars. Unfortunately, car manufacturers were able to weasel their way into the pockets of the city planners and put a stop to that. We have a problem in Los Angeles. And that problem is that it's almost impossible to live close to whe…

At least you work in a single place. I used to work in film/TV and public transport was never an option. Even if we weren't filming on location (ie at a place, not in a studio) the irregular working hours made it impossible. When designing public transport we have to remember that not everyone works 8->6 at a fixed location.

Today I have a nice government job at a fixed location (military) but still need my car. A couple times a month I get called in at strange hours (3am) and my boss doesn't want to hear "the buses aren't running yet".

Post reply on HN