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FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme

washingtonpost.com

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Re: FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme

#281

Post by dragonwriter »

oh_sigh wrote: post #259
Balgair wrote: post #171

Oh dear God. Reading into the indictments, it seems that a lot of the kids never had a clue that they were complicit in the schemes: >... and it was like, the kids though, and it was funny 'cause the kids will call me and say, "Maybe I should do that again. I did pretty well and if I took it again, I'll do better even" Right? And they just have no idea that they didn't even get the score that they thought they got. C…

Wouldn't some of the kids had to have been on it? They posed for picture of sports they didn't even play, and must have referenced it on their application

> They posed for picture of sports they didn't even play, and must have referenced it on their application

What makes you think they wrote their own application?

Re: FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme

#282

Post by dragonwriter »

edoo wrote: post #270
alasdair_ wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Because a university is a nonprofit that exists only for the purpose of improving the world. (Not necessarily the employees, who work there as a job, but it's why universities exist.) For something like fifteen years of my life I owed well over a hundred thousand dollars of non-bankruptable debt because of the fees this "non-profit" charged. A "non-profit" university exists for many, many reasons. Giving the dean a…

"Non-profit" is literally no more than a corporate tax status. That actual charitable causes happen to be non-profit is a coincidence.

> "Non-profit" is literally no more than a corporate tax status

It is a tax status (actually, a group of them), but the name has substantive meaning, since to qualify for any of them there must be no one with a claim on the entity’s accumulated earnings.

> That actual charitable causes happen to be non-profit is a coincidence.

It's not a coincidence, it's an actual legal defining characteristic of the kind of nonprofit to which donations are tax deductible.

Re: FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme

#283

Post by pts_ »

austincheney wrote: post #234
Balgair wrote: post #171

Oh dear God. Reading into the indictments, it seems that a lot of the kids never had a clue that they were complicit in the schemes: >... and it was like, the kids though, and it was funny 'cause the kids will call me and say, "Maybe I should do that again. I did pretty well and if I took it again, I'll do better even" Right? And they just have no idea that they didn't even get the score that they thought they got. C…

No empathy. The entire system is pay to play for the social connections. If they were actually interested in education the scenario would have been completely different. I saw similar fabrications growing up as I attended one of the wealthiest high schools in the country. The top 10 of my graduating class got complete scholarships the most expensive schools in the country and the parents were willing to do anything t…

Makes you wonder about kids always coming first in highschool. Makes you question the whole world!

Re: FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme

#284

Post by pts_ »

jka wrote: post #261
Balgair wrote: post #171

Oh dear God. Reading into the indictments, it seems that a lot of the kids never had a clue that they were complicit in the schemes: >... and it was like, the kids though, and it was funny 'cause the kids will call me and say, "Maybe I should do that again. I did pretty well and if I took it again, I'll do better even" Right? And they just have no idea that they didn't even get the score that they thought they got. C…

Makes you wonder how those kids managed in these top-tier schools - just fine, most likely, even if completely unaware. And then you wonder if the people behind these fraudulent entrance schemes might have considered it worthwhile to leverage their position further by holding it over the parents/students in future. Would they stoop so low? [edit: s/Ivy-league/top-tier]

I mean sure when your job as a grad will be to be a rent seeker/pseudo gangster.

Re: FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme

#285

Post by edoo »

dragonwriter wrote: post #282
edoo wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Non-profit" is literally no more than a corporate tax status. That actual charitable causes happen to be non-profit is a coincidence.

> "Non-profit" is literally no more than a corporate tax status It is a tax status (actually, a group of them), but the name has substantive meaning, since to qualify for any of them there must be no one with a claim on the entity’s accumulated earnings. > That actual charitable causes happen to be non-profit is a coincidence. It's not a coincidence, it's an actual legal defining characteristic of the kind of nonprof…

A non-profit has to show their outflows but it is quite common to have a non-profit where 100% of the money is doled out as taxable income to the board members.

Re: FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme

#286

Post by kamaal »

Balgair wrote: post #171

Oh dear God. Reading into the indictments, it seems that a lot of the kids never had a clue that they were complicit in the schemes: >... and it was like, the kids though, and it was funny 'cause the kids will call me and say, "Maybe I should do that again. I did pretty well and if I took it again, I'll do better even" Right? And they just have no idea that they didn't even get the score that they thought they got. C…

>>And you had no clue.

Anybody who does these kind of things does it because of positive feed back loops training over years. So they have a fair bit of clue. It's just the incentive ladder works that way.

Corruption exists because people want to be corrupt.

Re: FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme

#287

Post by Steko »

highschoolx wrote: post #198

US high school senior here. Made a throwaway for this. Seeing this makes my blood boil. Not only is it essentially an open secret that the admissions process actively discriminates against Asians and other high-achieving ethnic groups--and gives a massive leg up to legacies, children of donors, etc.--these people thought they were good enough, by virtue of their wealth, to bribe and cheat their way into these top uni…

Wait what are you talking about, 'legacies and children of donors'? I've been watching Fox News faithfully for decades and they've assured me it was only the handful of black and hispanic students who didn't "deserve" their places in college.

Re: FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme

#289

Post by lozenge »

bonestamp2 wrote: post #251
austincheney wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No empathy. The entire system is pay to play for the social connections. If they were actually interested in education the scenario would have been completely different. I saw similar fabrications growing up as I attended one of the wealthiest high schools in the country. The top 10 of my graduating class got complete scholarships the most expensive schools in the country and the parents were willing to do anything t…

> If they were actually interested in education the scenario would have been completely different. Seriously, I was staying at the Trump hotel in Chicago (before Trump ran for president -- before I ever gave much thought about Donald Trump). Anyway, there was a looping video on the TV and she was inviting guests to stay at any one of their other Trump hotels around "North America and Canada." It was at that moment I…

And Obama once said there were 57 states... gaffes are gaffes

Re: FBI accuses wealthy parents in college-entrance bribery scheme

#290

Post by kamaal »

XCabbage wrote: post #44
NowThenGoodBad wrote: post #7

This might be more overt than the usual form, but how does this differ from donating a new building, department, or scholarship fund and subsequently getting your kid in? My mother did well in the Masters program at Stanford and I would have likely gotten in if she donated a couple million dollars but she didn’t and I didn’t (despite getting an invitation a year after accepting enrollment at another university). It’s…

Donating a building is a payment to the university . The university then gets to decide to admit your child in return. It may not be meritocratic, but it's not corrupt (except perhaps insofar as by pretending the exchange is a donation, the university and donor manage to cheat the taxman). The donor is simply paying the university to provide a service that they have every right to offer for money. It also benefits ot…

>>Donating a building is a payment to the university.

>>It may not be meritocratic, but it's not corrupt

Its just dampening the effects a little, but its the same though. Donating X, just means the person who bought in the donation gets promoted or gets awarded some bonus or gets rewards by their employer(university). Instead of receiving the bribe directly.

This is a classic trick from corruption handbooks used by ace corrupt people.

When you trade something for something which could be wrong, only stupid people directly do it through exchange of money. Clever people trade through favors and indirect profit/help. They also call this lobbying in places like politics. In many other places they call these things incentives, commissions, brokerage or whatever.

This is really one of those classic problems with defining corruption. Books and stories can always be cooked in a way to make anything look good.

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