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Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

nytimes.com

281–290 of 735 posts

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#281
post #243
post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You silo the search engine segment of the business as one company, the advertising segment as a separate business, etc etc. Alphabet is more than just the Google search engine at this point.

Wouldn't the loss of close integration between Google's ads business and services decrease their respective values though?

Ideally it would directly and immediately decrease their values by the amount they were effectively extracting due to their monopoly position.

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#282
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't think she realizes that splitting up amazon and amazon basics will do little to nothing. I think amazon : amazon basics is a great example of antitrust/unfair monopoly the same as google search : almost all consumer facing google products. Both amazon and google search are the dominate online market leaders in their respective categories. In amazons case they unfairly use their market position to begin offer…

> In amazons case they unfairly use their market position to begin offering amazon private label products on their platform. They know what users are looking for, spend the most on, and they can give their own products dominate positions in the UI. 1) How is that different than a department store? If you go into housewares at Macy's you'll see their own branded stuff along with other brands. So at issue is not the pr…

On #1 I too had the same question, but I think the difference there is that department/grocery stores are re-sellers. They've already bought the goods from the third-party and are choosing to re-sell it at a markup. Amazon on the otherhand is a platform which only enables the initial sale.

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#283

I think breaking up the ISPs and media conglomerates would be much more impactful. I can't think of a single market segment where Google and Amazon lack effective competition. Facebook is already bleeding users, and how would you break up a social media company in an impactful way anyhow? Facebook's ventures outside of social media aren't even close to being monopolies.

Yeah, they are not monopolies in the classical sense, so the regulatory position has to be much more nuanced. But there are issues: + Amazon uses profits from AWS to dump in other sectors, selling goods and services below market value. The weird situation could mean Amazon pumps many billion dollars a year into pushing major grocers (who operate on thin margins) out of business. This is not good for anyone - but it's…

Predatory pricing to push companies out of business is absolutely illegal, and covered under anti-trust law. It's also very hard to prove without getting the intent in writing.

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

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post #181
post #97

There's precedent to this in the USA. The US Government once passed regulations that caused one of the largest companies in America to break up into three smaller companies. Today those, three companies are entirely independent, employ over 400,000 people combined, and have a combined net work of over $400B. Those companies are Boeing Aircraft (153k employees, $244B market value), United Technologies (202k employees,…

Anti-competition law and it's interpretation has changed drastically in the US after Robert Bork's book 'The Antitrust Paradox' (1978). Reagan administration used it as their bible.

Yes. Broadly speaking, the law went from looking at concentration as a bad thing on its own to only looking at whether consumer prices would be impacted. The prevalent idea now is that mega-mergers will reduce prices because of economies of scale.

It also doesn't help that there seems to be academic corruption or at least conflicts of interest driving the new interpretation. https://www.propublica.org/article/these-professors-make-mor...

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#285
post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as those services are profitable and they can outcompete startups then there’s nothing illegal or wrong about that. There’s no right that startups need to survive or have bias to succeed.

There's no right that tech giants need to be allowed to exist in their current form, either. If a person doesn't break any pre-existing laws, then they must not suffer any legal consequences, sure. And nobody is suggesting that Page and Brin should spend a minute in court or pay a cent in fines. But a corporation isn't a person, it's a business instrument, and if the United States were to judge that the existence of…

In that case, I’d rather err to less govt intervention than more. Govt should be built to write and execute laws, not pick winners.

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She has no proof, she does not need any. this is typical politician using FUD to scare the populace into letting them take actions which in the end only go to bolster their own campaign coffers and personal riches. With the upcoming Presidential campaign you can expect politicians tripping over each other using jealously and fear to get people to plea for action. Amazon is not a Standard Oil by any measure as they ha…

>Google is, well google. I don't have to use their search engine if I don't want to. When threads like this come up I always wonder how the engineers who worked on Bing must feel. I'd feel pretty disheartened if people had such a low opinion of my product that my competitor was considered a monopoly.

They're not using the traditional definition of monopoly meaning lack of competition, now monopoly just means "too big".

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#287

> The key components of the Warren plan include passing legislation that would designate companies with annual global revenue above $25 billion that provide marketplace, exchange, or third-party connectivity as “platform utilities” and prohibit those companies from owning participants on their platforms. As a Googler, speaking for myself, this seems like an interesting idea that could positively impact the tech scene…

I wonder how people’s perspectives might change if the largest and most influential companies of the next century aren’t American.

I bet China isn’t as keen to see its powerhouses broken up. Because it’s holding the leashe.

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#288

How about going after Comcast and Verizon first, the actual tech monopolies ? I already don’t use Facebook, I buy things online from places other than Amazon, and have email accounts that aren’t hosted by Google. However, all of that goes over Comcast’s network because that’s my only viable choice for Internet service. Also, while FAANG occasionally do things I don’t approve of, they don’t actively lobby congress for…

agree, ISPs, cable-providers and wireless carriers should also be on the top of the list. Same here, there is no alternate to Comcast in where I live offering a similar service. They have been doing very slight improvements in service while almost doubling their prices. Paying $110/month for a business line with 50 down / 10 up, while recently i was offered then refused a promotion upgrade to $140/month with 150 down…

On the other hand, the reasons that ISPs are territorial monopolies (local, state, and federal regulatory capture) are hard to address. Splitting territorial monopolies into smaller territorial monopolies is unlikely to help.

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#289
post #35

What is the alleged anti-competitive behavior? The article doesn't mention it. It sounds like she is calling for their breakup merely for being big and powerful, and if that were cause enough to break up an entity we would logically start with the government.

For starters, Amazon provided a marketplace platform for third parties to sell goods. They then gathered data on which items sold the best, created their own line of products based off this data, and crushed their customers-turned-competitors using their massive advantage in economies of scale.

Literally every moderately big retailer does this.

Though many of them choose brand that are not as obviously connected with the house. Like half the stuff at Walmart is actually a house brand.

Re: Elizabeth Warren Proposes Breaking Up Tech Giants Like Amazon

#290
Just my 2 cents: Apple currently offers a great user experience in terms of app quality, stability, design, etc... That's because they have a total control over what can and what can't be uploaded to their app store. They run extensive analysis over each one of the apps that are being submitted to the app store and they reserve their right to reject an app even if the slightest bug occurs. That, at the end of the day, turns into a very positive user experience. My question is: Would it be actually good for the end user if Apple is forced to lose control over the app store?
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