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PureOS is convergent

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Re: PureOS is convergent

#281

Post by mastrsushi »

emilsedgh wrote: post #260
mastrsushi wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, let me know when less than 25 developers crank out a working mobile Linux distro that will continue to be supported in 5 years. Looking at all the failed projects in the past and all the managements complexities like software support, modern touch integration this is virtually impossible. They'll likely have a brief stint releasing some Debian ARM based mobile OS with a limited selection of software. You'll get…

The mobile phone market is already slowing down. Just like PC market did years ago. When it gets stagnant, companies will stop innovating that hard and slowly but steadily open solutions will gain quality and feature parity. If in 10 years I get an open phone with the features close to what I have today, I'd be pretty happy. Because I just don't think phones today are going to be that different in 10 years. You are r…

I don't know exactly what you mean by slowing down, but I'm going to assume you mean innovation, like you say later. There I agree because not much has changed. There was a funny phone commercial a few months back where they pretty much admitted nothings changed since 2007.

It makes sense that stagnant progress leads to open solutions because as hardware advances, alternative technologies become less challenging to implement. I'm sure as you know, there was a time when running a real time OS like Unix on a personal computer was impossible, now it's on our routers.

Back to this Librem Phone, it seems the only selling point for it's massive price tag is being libre, and non-surveillance. But for a modern smartphone to be functional it's gotta be connected to a cellular tower which is definitely using some type of monitoring system.

What exactly do you mean by Linux is ahead of its competition?

Re: PureOS is convergent

#282

Post by robto »

rkangel wrote: post #275
robto wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, it works just fine. Clojure for the frontend is the best-in-class frontend dev environment that I've worked with. Instant hot code reloading, a browser-connected repl, great debugging tools, and a really nice collection of libraries for getting stuff done. I've never had to use native APIs for iOS and Android, so I can't speak to that from experience, but I know that there's some really nice machine…

In that land, what are you doing about UI? Still falling back on Java?

Nope! Usually if I need ui I reach for Clojurescript, but if I need something "native" I go for cljfx[0], a wrapper of javafx. But it's so much better than javafx - you get a really nice repl-driven, live coding plaform with functional state management and smart re-rendering.

[0]https://github.com/cljfx/cljfx

Re: PureOS is convergent

#283

Post by rkangel »

robto wrote: post #282
rkangel wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In that land, what are you doing about UI? Still falling back on Java?

Nope! Usually if I need ui I reach for Clojurescript, but if I need something "native" I go for cljfx[0], a wrapper of javafx. But it's so much better than javafx - you get a really nice repl-driven, live coding plaform with functional state management and smart re-rendering. [0] https://github.com/cljfx/cljfx

cljfx looks lovely, but I think it's misleading to talk about something being useful for 'frontend' if it can't do (at least one of) mobile and web.

There are lots of great languages I'd love to use, but if you want to target those common frontend platforms, your choice quickly becomes limited.

Re: PureOS is convergent

#284

Post by squarefoot »

tombert wrote: post #89
squarefoot wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"but I feel incredibly limited in what I can actually do with my iPhone" That's because they're intended to work as media consumption devices rather than productivity ones. If someone feels productive on a phone, he or she has very likely adapted herself to the device than the other way around. I had to struggle yesterday with my GF new phone because her lawyer sent her a paper in .doc format using Whatsapp (no kiddi…

A couple years ago (before I got the GPD Win), I thought about trying to hobble-together a Raspberry Pi or Odroid with a 3D printed case and a tiny screen, keyboard, and USB 4G adapter and use that as my phone. I bought all the parts, but I never assembled anything. It was a bit overly ambitious (maybe), but I actually think that it's not an inherently bad idea. EDIT: Also, don't want to be "that guy", but doesn't Go…

"It was a bit overly ambitious (maybe), but I actually think that it's not an inherently bad idea."

That's a great idea to me. There are too few choices on the cheap side to consider, like the Pinebook. Even the GPD Pocket 2, which I find gorgeous, is still too pricey IMO. A smaller Pinebook without trackpad would probably be our dream pocket device.

"but doesn't Google Drive support .doc files?"

Probably yes, though I'm used to always look for offline solutions: Once I get the data on my device, backups aside, it stays there for processing until I have to send it elsewhere. The concept of applications as services and cloud computing is ancient and totally unwanted to me, probably because dumbed down terminals connected to a do-it-all central server is something those of us who are over 50 see for what it really was: a huge limitation of the past, rather than a technological advancement. Forcing users to get online to load or edit something is just a way to control access both to the data and the code to treat that data.

Personal ideas aside, my GF family she often visits lives in a poorly covered area and being forced to depend on connectivity for editing a document or any other thing easily doable the traditional way, would be problematic to her. Luckily the world isn't made exclusively of hyperconnected cities with tall buildings.

Re: PureOS is convergent

#285

Post by robto »

rkangel wrote: post #283
robto wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope! Usually if I need ui I reach for Clojurescript, but if I need something "native" I go for cljfx[0], a wrapper of javafx. But it's so much better than javafx - you get a really nice repl-driven, live coding plaform with functional state management and smart re-rendering. [0] https://github.com/cljfx/cljfx

cljfx looks lovely, but I think it's misleading to talk about something being useful for 'frontend' if it can't do (at least one of) mobile and web. There are lots of great languages I'd love to use, but if you want to target those common frontend platforms, your choice quickly becomes limited.

Oh, I don't know if I was unclear but it can definitely do web. The mobile story is a bit more hazy (I think mainly accessed through React Native wrappers), but the web is a first class, I would argue best-class, use case for Clojurescript.

Libraries like Re-Frame[0] and Reagent[1], as well as build tools like figwheel[2] or shadow-cljs[3] are the best frontend web development tools I have ever used, and I've used Javascript, Typescript, and Purescript professionally with Angular, AngularJS, React, a big 'ol jQuery glob, and Halogen.

[0]https://github.com/Day8/re-frame

[1]http://reagent-project.github.io/

[2]https://figwheel.org/

[3]http://shadow-cljs.org/

Re: PureOS is convergent

#286

Post by JohnFen »

mastrsushi wrote: post #256
JohnFen wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure that what Canonical can or can't do has much bearing on what others can or can't do. I also don't think that the number of employees means all that much. Very often, smaller teams can be more focused and able to accomplish more than larger teams.

Yeah, let me know when less than 25 developers crank out a working mobile Linux distro that will continue to be supported in 5 years. Looking at all the failed projects in the past and all the managements complexities like software support, modern touch integration this is virtually impossible. They'll likely have a brief stint releasing some Debian ARM based mobile OS with a limited selection of software. You'll get…

This isn't a distro, but it is something at least equally complex. The company that I currently work for is a leader in our industry (I'm being intentionally vague here for legal reasons), producing very complex enterprise software for large customers. The entire company, not just the dev team, is less than 25 people.

The company has been doing this for roughly 30 years.

The size of a company is not irrelevant to what a company can do, of course, but it's also not determinative.

Re: PureOS is convergent

#287

Post by jclulow »

pjmlp wrote: post #254
jclulow wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

_Most_ people did not use computers like that at all, and it's not like they weren't tedious for those of us who did. There was simply no alternative at the time -- there is now.

Apparently they were quite good, given the amount of posts how great it is to live in a text terminal. /s

Don't get me wrong, I use and love a lot of terminal-based software. But from an information density perspective, my computer can display seven 80 column terminals over a hundred rows tall at once. Also, my keyboard is not awful, so I can actually do a lot of typing very quickly. For the occasions where I need a mouse or graphics they're readily available.

So echoes of, but not at all constrained like, computers from that era.

Re: PureOS is convergent

#288

Post by emilsedgh »

mastrsushi wrote: post #281
emilsedgh wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mobile phone market is already slowing down. Just like PC market did years ago. When it gets stagnant, companies will stop innovating that hard and slowly but steadily open solutions will gain quality and feature parity. If in 10 years I get an open phone with the features close to what I have today, I'd be pretty happy. Because I just don't think phones today are going to be that different in 10 years. You are r…

I don't know exactly what you mean by slowing down, but I'm going to assume you mean innovation, like you say later. There I agree because not much has changed. There was a funny phone commercial a few months back where they pretty much admitted nothings changed since 2007. It makes sense that stagnant progress leads to open solutions because as hardware advances, alternative technologies become less challenging to i…

I don't know exactly what you mean by slowing down

Like the PC and Laptop landscape. There isn't money poured into new series and advertisement and hype generated like crazy. Market moves forward at a slower rate.

But for a modern smartphone to be functional...

Obviously this isn't a replacement for your iphone or nexus. This is a enthusiast's toy who want to support the libre movement and possibly contribute to it.

What exactly do you mean by Linux is ahead of its competition?

I think Linux on the desktop is an amazing platform. There are several different high quality user interfaces and window managers and each one have their strong points.

I personally cannot stand windows on the desktop for 10 minutes.

Re: PureOS is convergent

#289

Post by cwyers »

wanderfowl wrote: post #250
cwyers wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you look at the bill of materials for a smartphone, the SoC is like... $20? Making the sort of interconnects you'd need and making them reliable enough probably costs about that much. For most people this need can be solved with software (Dropbox/OneDrive/iCloud), not hardware.

Maybe I just had a bad experience, but keeping multiple machines synced, particularly in terms of software configuration and options. Getting the various tools of a toolchain together once often sucks, doing it several times each time you make a tweak sucks extra. Also, these sync services sound great, until you're losing data due to bad sync. I tried to use Google Drive for this and lost data. So, I'd rather have on…

You're comparing the real-world implementation of something to a hypothetical. I bet that hot-swapping base machines into different form-factors like that will be just as ridden with technical problems as cloud storage is.

Re: PureOS is convergent

#290

Post by rijoja »

chriswarbo wrote: post #183
squarefoot wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"but I feel incredibly limited in what I can actually do with my iPhone" That's because they're intended to work as media consumption devices rather than productivity ones. If someone feels productive on a phone, he or she has very likely adapted herself to the device than the other way around. I had to struggle yesterday with my GF new phone because her lawyer sent her a paper in .doc format using Whatsapp (no kiddi…

> Give us an open (hardware) phone and OS plus apps will follow. I've been very happy with my OpenMoko FreeRunner for about 10 years now. It's running Debian (QtMoko), can send and receive calls and SMS, has WiFi, a Web browser, games, text editor, etc. I can also do anything from the terminal (locally via a terminal program, or remotely via SSH), including "apt-get" from the standard (although outdated) Debian repos…

Would you happen to know at which version the support was dropped?
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