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Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret

businessinsider.com

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Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret

#281

Post by kmlx »

smolder wrote: post #139
kmlx wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I have 100% doubt anyone is spying on anyone. I think most of it is paranoia. I also think this kind of paranoia is detrimental to our evolution as a species. We should be sharing more, not hiding in our caves.

A better version of humanity wouldn't be risking anything by sharing excessively and would get all the benefits of transparency. The humanity of reality is still plagued with bad actors who would throw away everyone's future, throw away civility, seek out despotic rule, etc. We have an elaborate system of incentives and disincentives we rely on to maintain good faith participation in society, and despite our best eff…

thank you for this high quality comment.

i agree with you in spirit.

Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret

#282

Post by kmlx »

jjulius wrote: post #98
kmlx wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I have 100% doubt anyone is spying on anyone. I think most of it is paranoia. I also think this kind of paranoia is detrimental to our evolution as a species. We should be sharing more, not hiding in our caves.

>We should be sharing more... Why? And what else should we be sharing?

everything. anonymity via transparency.

Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret

#283

Post by kmlx »

StanislavPetrov wrote: post #208
kmlx wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I have 100% doubt anyone is spying on anyone. I think most of it is paranoia. I also think this kind of paranoia is detrimental to our evolution as a species. We should be sharing more, not hiding in our caves.

>Yes, I have 100% doubt anyone is spying on anyone. Really? Did you ever hear of a guy named Snowden? Do you understand that our government spends tens of billions of dollars annual to spy on people? Do you understand that Google, Facebook and every other search, advertising and social media company have billion-dollar business models based almost entirely on surveillance and information hashing? I hope you are being…

this is exactly what i was writing about: the paranoia. what does Snowden and the billions of dollars spent on spying have to do with what i buy and what i consume? nothing. no one is coming for us. we're way too unimportant.

Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret

#284

Post by lrem »

CodeSheikh wrote: post #174
balabaster wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or was "yes, yes, we'll add a story to the backlog to add it to the specs" and it just flat out got forgotten. I've seen this happen so many times where I've been the one to raise the issue and because I've passed it off, I've forgotten about it only to circle back around 2 months later when someone says "Oh, we need to do this" and I say "I raised this 2 months ago, I thought X had put it in the backlog." And when y…

I am sorry but I do not buy this "added to backlog and forgot" theory, especially for a resources-packed company like Google. Are you implying that everyone from PM to devs to QA all ignored the microphone sitting in there? All electronics needs to be compliance tested at a gov labs in Northeast (Baltimore area) because of electromagnetic signature since Nest devices have WiFi. Are you saying even they forgot to brin…

I work in Google and my org of over a hundred engineers has a single tech writer assigned. I assure you she never sees the bottom of her backlog.

Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret

#285

Post by balabaster »

lrem wrote: post #284
CodeSheikh wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am sorry but I do not buy this "added to backlog and forgot" theory, especially for a resources-packed company like Google. Are you implying that everyone from PM to devs to QA all ignored the microphone sitting in there? All electronics needs to be compliance tested at a gov labs in Northeast (Baltimore area) because of electromagnetic signature since Nest devices have WiFi. Are you saying even they forgot to brin…

I work in Google and my org of over a hundred engineers has a single tech writer assigned. I assure you she never sees the bottom of her backlog.

This is so common in so many companies I've worked with that it doesn't even begin to surprise me. This is an accepted way of life at most tech companies.

Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret

#286

Post by reitanqild »

kmlx wrote: post #280
reitanqild wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We should be sharing more, not hiding in our caves. I suggest you start, your profile here is even slimmer than mine. More seriously: while there surely is some paranoia going on, recent events have made me more careful, not less.

you could build a whole internet persona of myself just from the few bits i have written on these forums.

Good point, that has occured to me as well : )

I probably should make a new account every year.

Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret

#287

Post by dpark »

gcb0 wrote: post #277
dpark wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not as if someone is going to experience a false alarm in their own system, accidentally access your system via a giant security failure and random account mangling, while your system is experiencing a real alarm at the same moment , and then unintentionally silence your alarm. The level of coincidence here is absurd. The alternative concern that Nest is so incompetent that they somehow issue an automatic silenc…

your landlord will get the notification about carbon monoxide on their phone. Then they will call you. It might be a false alarm twice. Then it might be real the third time but then they decided to not call you and just silence it. lot's of thing can happen by incompetence, not even have to go too far on the scenarios.

Why would they silence the alarm? It's just a notification on their phone. Silencing doesn't accomplish anything for them.

The first time my landlord silenced a "false alarm", I'd tell them not to ever do that again. The second time, I'd reset the device and register it under an account they don't control.

But yes, I do see your concern now. I was not initially thinking of the landlord actually controlling the device, merely installing and allowing the tenant to control it. There's a lot less ridiculous coincidence required for a landlord to stupidly silence the alarm.

Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret

#288

Post by StanislavPetrov »

criddell wrote: post #220
StanislavPetrov wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people have no problem putting a little webcam in their toilet bowl so that the world can watch them eliminate every morning. Personally I prefer to keep my business private. I don't need any "vindication" to be happy with my decision to protect my privacy. If you don't understand the value of privacy nobody can explain it to you - but they may watch your morning broadcasts.

You don't see any difference between people getting a Google-connected device (like a Google Home or Pixel phone) and those that install a public webcam in their bathroom?

The Google-connected monitoring device is arguable much more intrusive.

Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret

#289

Post by StanislavPetrov »

kmlx wrote: post #283
StanislavPetrov wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Yes, I have 100% doubt anyone is spying on anyone. Really? Did you ever hear of a guy named Snowden? Do you understand that our government spends tens of billions of dollars annual to spy on people? Do you understand that Google, Facebook and every other search, advertising and social media company have billion-dollar business models based almost entirely on surveillance and information hashing? I hope you are being…

this is exactly what i was writing about: the paranoia. what does Snowden and the billions of dollars spent on spying have to do with what i buy and what i consume? nothing. no one is coming for us. we're way too unimportant.

Tell it to the Chinese and rapidly expanding system of total surveillance and social credit scores. On the contrary, they are coming for all of us, only here we are opening the door and inviting them in.

Re: Google says Nest’s built-in mic not listed in specs was not meant to be secret

#290

Post by criddell »

StanislavPetrov wrote: post #288
criddell wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't see any difference between people getting a Google-connected device (like a Google Home or Pixel phone) and those that install a public webcam in their bathroom?

The Google-connected monitoring device is arguable much more intrusive.

It's almost as bad as a smartphone with Google's software installed.
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