If the "UX collective" thinks that site is what user experience should be, then I think it's time for a military coup. It's really hard to read.
Whitespace killed an enterprise app
281–290 of 445 posts
Re: Whitespace killed an enterprise app
#282Earlier quoted context omitted.
I can't believe how many times I've heard your story but in different companies. I feel like there is an opportunity to make a graphical user interface framework that mimics old terminals. Full screen apps that leverage use of the keyboard shortcuts or hell even a custom keyboard specifically made for industrial use. Basically a IBM 400 system but running on modern software stack. Airlines have stuck with their UI an…
Those old green screen apps (CICs etc) supported enormous key stroke rates all right, with nary a mouse in sight. But productivity was not as high as a rosy colored view of the past might suggest. Operators had to be highly skilled. Entering a record for the East coast sales team would require remembering the code ESALES03. There were no helpful UI affordances of the modern age, e.g. fuzzy or free form searching.
So combine the two, there isn’t intrinsically a reason you couldn’t do either with a TUI.
I work on enterprise systems and try hard to keep things consistent, it’s amazing how much enterprise web stuff I’ve run into that doesn’t even handle tab order correctly on a form that is pure data entry.
It’s hard to go all in on keyboard because browsers are somewhat inconsistent on which key combos do what though.
Re: Whitespace killed an enterprise app
#283Earlier quoted context omitted.
Craigslist is _the_ case study on how an ugly UI can survive over a long timeline. There are many techies and UI designers that are just disgusted at the UI of craigslist. For some, aesthetic is more important than usability. Luckily, for most, it's not.
Yes exactly. CL is probably my favorite website on the internet, for the sheer reason that they have virtually not changed at all since they first launched over 10 years ago. It's fairly incredible. I can't think of another website that has done that.
> I can't think of another website that has done that.
Hmm, I'll give you a hint. You're looking at it.
Re: Whitespace killed an enterprise app
#284Earlier quoted context omitted.
Being easy to use and easy to learn are not necessarily the same thing. GUI's are generally easier to learn, but not necessarily the most productive once a typical user reaches the plateau of the learning curve. A UI designed to minimize hand and eye movements may have a longer learning curve than a GUI. The ideal solution may thus depend on staff turnover rate.
I think you'd be surprised how quickly people can pick up on an interface that is as simple as the kinds of TUIs we're talking about. These kinds of things were very common for all sorts of tasks throughout the late 80s and early 90s and I don't think I've ever heard of the learning curve being a problem.
Shift+F5 F10 F10 code Return.
How to look up unsold inventory on the system at the first job I worked in 1999.
There people there who could navigate 5 screens without looking until the system returned the result they wanted.
People are smarter than many give them credit, the computing revolution in business really started taking off in an era when computers booted to something like.
C:\>
Re: Whitespace killed an enterprise app
#285Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Except users lie all the time. That's the starting point for all the garbage enterprise apps I've ever used. Someone that has no clue what the users are doing makes a decision about how best to design an app that they don't even know how to test. Don't ask them how to design the app. Ask them what they do with the app, then find the best way to get them where they need to go. Then let them test the first and second…
> I've ever used. Someone that has no clue what the users are doing makes a decision about how best to design an app that they don't even know how to test. You're talking at cross-purposes. To get a sense of how people are interacting with the software you have to watch them interact with the software. The moment you ask them a question about UX you'll begin to get low quality input that you can't trust: * user is ex…
Watching someone use an interface can be low-quality information, especially when that interface is already heavily optimized to guide the user down a prescribed path. If that's your sole input, then you're essentially doing a naïve gradient descent, and you're bound to be stuck in a local minimum.
Asking users, in addition to watching them struggle, can inform you on what they're actually trying to achieve, and what's their mental model.
Re: Whitespace killed an enterprise app
#286I don't really agree about the merging of information (the rest is fine). In the example, what happens if you want to sort by state or zip (assuming they are sortable)? The upgrade is really just a downgrade functionality wise in that case. This is something I find happens time and time again, an app will get redesigned and lose functionality to look simpler. It might not be the case here if it doesn't need to allow…
Merging fields for display doesn't preclude sorting by the merged fields, which may or may not be trivial depending on the UI libraries being used. But if the user wants to sort by state, it's worth finding out why. Is it so they can "simply" scroll down 50 pages to the Louisiana customers in order to print out a screenshot and fax it to the Louisiana office?
Re: Whitespace killed an enterprise app
#287Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Watch them work. This x1000! I took on a freelance project for a heavy machinery hauling company. They were a year into transitioning away from some customized off the shelf Enterprise scheduling and dispatch system into some custom built software by an “Enterprise” consulting company. They were originally bringing me in to audit what the team that was building it but that pretty much changed on the day I submitted…
My first paid gig I did this with wild success also. After that I tried to do this several times and was always met with incredulity. Management never seemed to grok the importance of this, to the point where I started thinking maybe my first experience had been a fluke (gaslighting). While I no longer think this is practical (unless you are the one in charge), I do recommend it whenever possible. The product will be…
You could manage this by setting expectations early. When you start negotiating, a classic trick is to set a few different “packages” and then gently guiding the other side towards the option you really wanted from the start.
So let’s say you really want to do this bit, but you also know management is too cheap; you create a super-cheap option where you don’t do the activity, but something else also happens that management is unwilling to accept, something pretty horrible. Then you have two other packages that are actually desirable, both containing the activity; one of them should be the bells&whistles option that will look expensive. Management will discard the costly choice and the obviously-subpar one, and pick the middle tier. The skill is in not making it too obvious that is what you wanted all along - i.e. you should sound really disappointed that they didn’t pick the super-expensive version.
Re: Whitespace killed an enterprise app
#288Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is how I feel about computing in general. GUIs in general were a mistake. Vim is fucking awesome, and there's no replacing a shell and the myriad CLI utilities you have at your disposal. The computer is there to automate repetitive tasks, not create virtual busywork. GUIs generally represent the sacrifice of power and automation for approachability by the lowest common denominator.
> The computer is there to automate repetitive tasks, not create virtual busywork. The GUI eliminated the busy work of setting up your environment to make your workflows easy. It instead provides an environment where a wide variety of workflows are easy by default, although maybe not as easy as they could be with specific configuration like setting up customized keybindings, etc.
Easy but time consuming. I.e. not ergonomic. Also point&click UIs tend to sacrifice composability, whereas keyboard-driven interfaces tend to allow to chain operations and modifiers in a way that makes it ergonomically cover much larger space of possible workflows.
Re: Whitespace killed an enterprise app
#289And PLEASE don’t break the keyboard with your bespoke (buggy) reinvention of html. Specifically Ctrl-F and the back button. Oh, and s. I could go on but it’ll just make me sound grumpy.
Re: Whitespace killed an enterprise app
#290Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have also thought this through to the following logical conclusion: Imagine computer users being fluent in SQL and everyone sharing one giant database. Let’s check Twitter... select message, username from TWEETS order by date desc limit 10 Slightly more realistic is the “semantic web” concept.
The trend of GraphQL in JS-land is helping move a little bit towards this, since it's a strong reason to have row-level user authentication and access control so that queries can live in the frontend.
The problem at this point isn't with technology, it's with companies that try to silo in the data users give them.