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New study: Google manipulates users into constant tracking

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Re: New study: Google manipulates users into constant tracking

#281

Post by ultimoo »

FabHK wrote: post #276

My list of degooglifying actions: * switch default search engine to DuckDuckGo (can still use !s bang when one wants to see what Google has) * use tracking blocker (uBlock origin, BlockBear on iOS) * use anonymous/private/porn mode browsing most of the time (except for sites I actually want to be logged in permanently) * use Zoho as a replacement for shared Google docs * use Youtube either in private window, and/or d…

Great list! You forgot to mention the browser, I personally use FF and have grown to like it though I miss Chrome occasionally.

>long ago switched to different email for main email, and forwarded gmail account to it (nobody uses it anymore).

Neat! How do you set up auto forwarding with gmail?

Re: New study: Google manipulates users into constant tracking

#283

Post by reaperducer »

ljcn wrote: post #198
OmarGonzalez wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah no, I rather pay a fee for that

There are plenty of paid-for satnavs. Tomtom Navigation GPS Traffic (Android)/ Tomtom GO (iOS) get good reviews for motoring. Citymapper is free and great for public transport. I'm sure there are many others.

The satnav in my car is pretty good, and doesn't violate my privacy.

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find one for walking around. All the battery powered ones seem aimed at hikers, so they're loaded with great wilderness maps, but won't help me find a coffee.

Re: New study: Google manipulates users into constant tracking

#284

Post by glerk »

ThomPete wrote: post #15

I for one are happy to be tracked so that my experience is optimal. Edit: I understand the potential issues and especially with someone like Google using it for other things. But I am more concerned about the backlash against using data to improve our world. There are many different areas which would be improved greatly from more data and would be to everyone's benefit. Personally I have always shared as much as I ca…

I choose to give Google my location data because I hope I am making a tiny contribution to good causes (optimizing public transit routing, training self-driving cars etc)

Re: New study: Google manipulates users into constant tracking

#285

Post by FabHK »

ehsankia wrote: post #222
annapurna wrote: post #46

Android users are pushed through a variety of techniques: Deceptive click flow Hidden default settings Misleading and unbalanced information Repeated nudging Bundling of services and lack of granular choices* Deceptive click flow is the click-flow when setting up an Android device pushes users into enabling “Location History” without being aware of it.* Hidden Default settings is [when] setting up a Google account, t…

I would've liked it if they included photos and videos of these "deceptive" interactions. Instead they have this flashy video which basically is just showcasing the Timeline feature, and pretending it's some secret malicious data collection plan.

Do you doubt that the deceptive interactions they describe exist as described?

Most people do not realise how much data Google et al. collect about them, and are genuinely shocked when it is shown to them (even though, yes, it's an existing feature well known to you and most HN readers).

The video demonstrates both a) how much Google collects (which comes as a surprise to most people), and b) that most people are not aware of it (which apparently comes as a surprise to you).

> pretending it's some secret malicious data collection plan

Of course, there's the maxim that one should never ascribe to malice what can plausibly be blamed on incompetence. But sorry, if you find these repeated dark patterns throughout again and again, in apps that have been carefully designed and optimised by huge teams of people, then it is justified to speak of bad intentions.

Re: New study: Google manipulates users into constant tracking

#286

Post by chrshawkes »

creato wrote: post #201
StavrosK wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is disingenuous and unreasonable. The setting is unnecessarily restrictive. It's simple: "Do you want us to store your data on our servers?" Answering "no" should mean you store it locally, not that you don't store it at all. If you tell Google not to save your search history on their servers, they just disable it completely, when they could just save it locally. This is nowhere near a product problem. The setti…

> Answering "no" should mean you store it locally, not that you don't store it at all. If you tell Google not to save your search history on their servers, they just disable it completely, when they could just save it locally. I think you are ridiculously underestimating the complexity and issues that would arise with two separate mechanisms for saving the same kind of data, and an option to switch between the two. D…

It's not that complex, especially for Google. They could use localstorage, cookies or whatever, no reason the users data has to go to Google to make personalized experiences possible.

Re: New study: Google manipulates users into constant tracking

#287

Post by reaperducer »

IanCal wrote: post #20
levesque wrote: post #4

I tried using Google Maps without search history turned on. It's basically a downgraded version. They tied saving locations with the search history, so it won't let you search for friends' contacts, set a home address, etc. Is it on purpose? I don't know, but I find it weird that they would tie some unrelated features together. Why does setting a Home address require search history?

Google either do or used to automatically detect your home and work based on your history. While I agree it should be settable without it, that may be the reason why they were tied.

Google either do or used to automatically detect your home and work based on your history

The iPhone does that. Or at least tries. It knows that the place I live is my wife's home, but for me it's always labeled "gym."

Apple Maps should talk to my Health app and figure out that the chances I'm at a gym are pretty much zero.

Re: New study: Google manipulates users into constant tracking

#288

Post by FabHK »

rifung wrote: post #180
levesque wrote: post #4

I tried using Google Maps without search history turned on. It's basically a downgraded version. They tied saving locations with the search history, so it won't let you search for friends' contacts, set a home address, etc. Is it on purpose? I don't know, but I find it weird that they would tie some unrelated features together. Why does setting a Home address require search history?

> Is it on purpose? I don't know, but I find it weird that they would tie some unrelated features together. Why does setting a Home address require search history? I work at Google but not on Maps, opinions are my own. I don't know if this is why they did it that way, but it wouldn't surprise me if the reason was merely that 99.9% of users opt in to location sharing and the developers didn't feel it useful to spend t…

Well, in particular, if a developer "untied" these things (ie made the app more useful without signing in), and then the ratio of users who do sign in drops, then that is presumably a "bad impact" metric for the developer. Why would they do that?

It seems rather obvious that there is little incentive to provide usefulness without tying it as closely as possible to data collection.

Re: New study: Google manipulates users into constant tracking

#289

Post by StavrosK »

rifung wrote: post #255
StavrosK wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Obviously I am biased, but I think you're being a little too cynical. Very possibly. > Supporting the use case you described, which is not used by the vast majority of users does not align with the incentives given to them. I think you have causation wrong here. Users leave search history enabled because Google makes it unnecessarily hard to use the app with it disabled. > Recently, Google updated its values (I can…

> I think you have causation wrong here. Users leave search history enabled because Google makes it unnecessarily hard to use the app with it disabled. That's a fair point. Nevertheless, most people on the team were not there when this feature was first introduced and we can only work from where we are now. To undo the status quo is something few are in a position to do. > So what you're saying is "there's no incenti…

It does, indeed, sound like we are in agreement. I'm not saying everyone in Google is evil and wants the worst for the user, but that Google doesn't really care about the user and that shows.

I guess everyone in the company is complicit to that, with a share of responsibility proportional to the amount of power they have, as with any organization...

Re: New study: Google manipulates users into constant tracking

#290

Post by dzader »

maxxxxx wrote: post #206
dzader wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious why you feel so entitled that you think Google should provide you with their free mapping service and features with nothing in exchange?

I don't feel entitled and I rarely use them but it's still sleazy behavior. There are a lot of people who don't understand what consequences using Google or Facebook has to their privacy and these companies happily prey on them.

What are the consequences? I guess I don't understand them either
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