Debt Worldwide Hits Record $86k per Person • Hacker News Board

Re: Debt Worldwide Hits Record $86k per Person

#281

Post by Chris_Chambers » Sun, Dec 16, 2018, 7:31 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #86

maxxxxx wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They wouldn't and maybe it's a bad idea to enter debt that last more than 50 years. It pretty much means to borrow money that the next generation has to pay off.

I understood the original comment to mean everyone’s debt is zeroed at 50 year intervals, e.g. 1900, 1950, 2000, etc. regardless of when it started. What you are suggesting is all debt is zeroed out 50 years after it’s issued? Then why would any borrower pay off any principle at all? This whole jubilee thing makes no sense, may be a little bit if the jubilee happens unexpectedly so that people can’t just plan around…

Jubilee only applies to debt owed between two Jews. Any costs or consequences of the jubilee are absorbed by gentiles downstream. The 2008 financial crisis is a good example of this.

Re: Debt Worldwide Hits Record $86k per Person

#282

Post by madeofmeat » Sun, Dec 16, 2018, 7:35 PM UTC

lotsofpulp wrote: post #46

ctdonath wrote: post #21

There's a reason ancient Judaism included a "Year of Jubilee", where all debts were forgiven every 50 years.

If all debt was forgiven every 50 years, why would any lender lend money with a term going past the year before the jubilee?

They wouldn't, and that was intended.

It's obvious this law would restrict economic development, but the Hebrews made that tradeoff for social stability.

The main feature of the Jubilee law was that land could not be permanently sold, it could only be leased for up to 50 years. This together with their inheritance laws guaranteed that each clan or family group would have an economic base in perpetuity.

Re: Debt Worldwide Hits Record $86k per Person

#283

Post by nonbel » Mon, Dec 17, 2018, 1:10 AM UTC

posix_me_less wrote: post #278

nonbel wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "I owe hundreds of thousands on my house [...] my net debt is zero." > "my house is worth significantly more than my debt" You realize the value of your house dropping by 50% in a year would not be very surprising? And that would be mild, it is all up to which group of people the federal reserve chooses to benefit.

> value of your house dropping by 50% in a year would not be very surprising? That's crazy, does that happen often in the U.S.?

Not often. Actually there is an interesting distinction here between frequency and probability... but anyway there has recently been a ZIRP induced bubble (~2008-2016), which leads to high prices of various assets in a trickle down way: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/FEDFUNDS

Re: Debt Worldwide Hits Record $86k per Person

#284

Post by jazzyjackson » Mon, Dec 17, 2018, 10:18 PM UTC

Geee wrote: post #206

jazzyjackson wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll give a crack at some cliffnotes: A debt is a very natural thing for humans, because we feel compelled to provide value to people who can't pay us yet. Even before money people had gifts and favors - we give with the expectation that we'll be given something in the future - or we say 'you owe me one' when someone has helped us through an issue without sending us an invoice. So the genius of fiat currency is that…

Each IOU is actually a promise to work. Before money it could have been 'I will work for you 30 years' and if someone believes that, they can trade that promise for a nice house for the person to live in. A promise is basically analogous to a debt. In todays world, the promise is made to a lender (a bank), which then creates a fungible IOU, i.e standard currency for that promise, which can be exchanged for equivalent…

That's a very cool way to think of it, thanks

Re: Debt Worldwide Hits Record $86k per Person

#285

Post by dang » Tue, Dec 18, 2018, 8:10 AM UTC

arminiusreturns wrote: post #261

matt4077 wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, the use of the terms “fractional reserve” and “fiat” are almost perfect indicators you are dealing with a conspiracy nut.

Hey dang, are comments like this what flies around here these days? You've temp shadowbanned people for much less... As for gp, when I get to a real keyboard I will give you a proper response. Fair enough on the critique of my terseness.

No, it's not acceptable. I've warned that user in a different context.

Re: Debt Worldwide Hits Record $86k per Person

#286

Post by sdinsn » Tue, Dec 18, 2018, 7:08 PM UTC

rcMgD2BwE72F wrote: post #212

sdinsn wrote: post #33

It's kind of silly to spread corporate and government debt across all people. Also, the article makes no mention of what assets are valued at.

>It's kind of silly to spread corporate and government debt across all people. Why? The most indebted (how may have billions the bank) still need to have others work for them in order to repay their debt. Billionaires earned billions because "people" work for them (or buy from them, in the end that's the same thing).

Because debt is counted multiple times. If Company A loans a dollar to Company B, which loans it to Person C, that's $2 of debt but only $1.

Re: Debt Worldwide Hits Record $86k per Person

#287

Post by dragonwriter » Tue, Dec 18, 2018, 7:11 PM UTC

sdinsn wrote: post #33

It's kind of silly to spread corporate and government debt across all people. Also, the article makes no mention of what assets are valued at.

> It's kind of silly to spread corporate and government debt across all people.

Well, no more than it is to spread the corporate and have government claims on debt across all people as assets.

Oh, wait, no one does that.