AWS CEO Jassy follows Apple in calling for retraction of Chinese spy chip story • Hacker News Board

Re: AWS CEO Jassy follows Apple in calling for retraction of Chinese spy chip story

#281

Post by SEJeff » Tue, Oct 23, 2018, 6:06 PM UTC

ryanmarsh wrote: post #276

SEJeff wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I don't think those are really related. Apple was exceptionally clear that this simply didn't happen. Verizon is very careful about how they word that to say they didn't turn them over to the NSA, while omitting all of the other three letter agencies (DIA, FBI, DOJ, etc). Compare that with Apple's statement, which is forcefully blunt and has no wiggle room: On this we can be very clear: Apple has never found mal…

The next step would be a libel lawsuit against Bloomberg I'm waiting for the libel lawsuit. The absence of one is something I can't reconcile and leads me to thinking perhaps Apple doesn't want to through the discovery process for such a lawsuit which leads me to wonder why they wouldn't...

There aren't really any upsides for a libel lawsuit from Apple tbh, but I guess it just depends on how much Cook wants that retracted. As spiteful as he was, I'd suspect Jobs would have aggressively taken this approach.

Re: AWS CEO Jassy follows Apple in calling for retraction of Chinese spy chip story

#282

Post by acct1771 » Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 5:31 AM UTC

drb91 wrote: post #243

acct1771 wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you truly believe his point to be unrelated, this isn't a debate about GP's tone? I think what parent touches on in their "tangent" is indeed the most important thing to come out of this story.

I do truly believe it to be unrelated and veering into attractive-but-unsubstantiated conspiracy territory.

I think you mean conspiracy theory.

Of course this event is a conspiracy.

Re: AWS CEO Jassy follows Apple in calling for retraction of Chinese spy chip story

#283

Post by acct1771 » Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 5:32 AM UTC

sonnyblarney wrote: post #267

drb91 wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do truly believe it to be unrelated and veering into attractive-but-unsubstantiated conspiracy territory.

The United States spends 10's of billions of dollars spying on it's enemies. They hack, install spyware, require backdoors, use phishing, social engineering. So does China, Russia etc. and this is not a conspiracy.

It IS a conspiracy.

What you said is not a conspiracy theory.

Re: AWS CEO Jassy follows Apple in calling for retraction of Chinese spy chip story

#284

Post by sonnyblarney » Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 6:21 AM UTC

acct1771 wrote: post #283

sonnyblarney wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The United States spends 10's of billions of dollars spying on it's enemies. They hack, install spyware, require backdoors, use phishing, social engineering. So does China, Russia etc. and this is not a conspiracy.

It IS a conspiracy. What you said is not a conspiracy theory .

Ha ha yes, you're right!

Re: AWS CEO Jassy follows Apple in calling for retraction of Chinese spy chip story

#285

Post by bsder » Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 6:28 AM UTC

simias wrote: post #261

bsder wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can also have the government out to ruin your life if you don't cooperate. See: Joseph Nacchio and Qwest

I can't believe that the government would blackmail Tim Cook into writing such a strongly worded rebuttal and then, weeks later when the story is not making the front pages anymore, have him write a call for retraction which brings this story back in the news cycle. That makes zero practical sense. That's the problem with many conspiracy theories: they make it seem like the people pulling the strings are incredibly c…

> I could believe it if the denials so far felt incomplete or ambiguously worded as if they were tiptoeing around something that they were not allowed to disclose. I could believe it if all we had coming from Apple and Amazon was the usual lawyer-speak "I won't confirm of deny" bullshit. Instead we've had completely unambiguous "this is completely false and never happened".

Well, at this point everybody is watching for weasel words, so a categorical denial is the only thing the government can demand that wouldn't provoke suspicion.

> If it turns out to be a lie it's going to be devastating for the trust in Apple or Amazon.

Oh, please. Companies have had millions of credit card numbers stolen, and nothing happens.

Apple and Amazon would get a bit of bad press. The tech folks wouldn't trust them any less than they already do. And it would blow over in a couple weeks at worst.

At this point, my Bayesian priors are lowering on Bloomberg, but they are not necessarily going up on Amazon or Apple.

Re: AWS CEO Jassy follows Apple in calling for retraction of Chinese spy chip story

#286

Post by fit2rule » Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 8:37 AM UTC

module0000 wrote: post #273

fit2rule wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't bother trying - its not possible in todays political climate for people to be enlightened as to just how much damage has been done to the world by the 'intelligence' community. The CIA is the #1 source of conflict and trouble in the world - but American citizens have a very hard time with the self-reflection required to see this fact. This is by design: their society has been engineered to allow the secret spoo…

>> The world would be a much, much better place if American citizens paid more attention to what their spy masters are doing in the world. It doesn't work like that... "at least its our guys doing it" isn't some honest maxim we spout off in American fervor. It's akin to Winston knowing that when the 2-minutes-hate starts, whether you are into it or not, you stand up and blend in . Otherwise, those spy masters you men…

>We just live here man, you don't think we actually are in charge and can make any difference...do you?

Is it a democracy or not? Are you a brave people, or are you really a nation of cowards?

The world burns while Americans do everything they can to not take responsibility for their government.

Re: AWS CEO Jassy follows Apple in calling for retraction of Chinese spy chip story

#287

Post by module0000 » Wed, Oct 24, 2018, 2:27 PM UTC

fit2rule wrote: post #286

module0000 wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> The world would be a much, much better place if American citizens paid more attention to what their spy masters are doing in the world. It doesn't work like that... "at least its our guys doing it" isn't some honest maxim we spout off in American fervor. It's akin to Winston knowing that when the 2-minutes-hate starts, whether you are into it or not, you stand up and blend in . Otherwise, those spy masters you men…

>We just live here man, you don't think we actually are in charge and can make any difference...do you? Is it a democracy or not? Are you a brave people, or are you really a nation of cowards? The world burns while Americans do everything they can to not take responsibility for their government.

No it's not a democracy and never has been, the system of government here is a democratic republic. Misunderstanding America seems to be a very hip thing to do these days. Most of us do exactly what you do in your respective country: try to look out for our family each day. We're neither aware nor responsible for 99% of the rest of what goes on around the globe. Most of us don't care, because we have our own problems to worry about.

The talking heads you see on TV telling you "America thinks XYZ", or "America won't stand for !", are just that...talking heads. They aren't us, we don't know them, they don't come over and share meals...they are just a few elite that can't shut their mouth in front of a camera. It's just as shitty here as it is where you are from, most likely.

Now we have lots of propaganda. You know, like the USSR and North Korean propaganda... mantras that say we are the bravest, most "free", most prestigious people on the planet. It's just propaganda though, no one that lives here believes that nonsense. If they do, they just got off the boat...give them a year and their tune will change.

disclaimer: I'm an unhappy veteran.

Re: AWS CEO Jassy follows Apple in calling for retraction of Chinese spy chip story

#288

Post by dredmorbius » Thu, Oct 25, 2018, 10:19 PM UTC

leoc wrote: post #86

fanzhang wrote: post #63

The lack of confirming evidence is a strong sign the Bloomberg reporters were played. It's interesting to wonder who might have done that though -- US businesses who might gain? Those from within the administration? Regardless of the truthfulness of the report, the damage is done and the hack story fits in well for the protectionist trajectory the US is taking.

It's certainly not the case that the US government has been above disinformation campaigns aimed at its own citizens even in the recent https://www.wired.co.uk/article/mirage-men https://www.dailygrail.com/2013/06/a-fractured-hall-of-mirro... or very recent https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/16/us/politics/pentagon-prog... past. Though of course there would be much more political risk in lying to Bloomberg News than in…

Stalking / necroposting on this item: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6749247

You'd mused on how bad the PR disaster would prove, of Google's YouTube/G+ integration, back in November of 2013.

Five years later, that integration has been reversed, and Google are in the process of killing off G+.

Trust in Silicon Valley as a whole is low, Apple's CEO has just called for a national data privacy law in the US, and the idea of adopting a new Google product doomed to be killed shortly after is now a cheap punch line.

Google itself doesn't appear to be financially damaged, but that can take a long time to set in.

Re: AWS CEO Jassy follows Apple in calling for retraction of Chinese spy chip story

#289

Post by tomjakubowski » Sat, Oct 27, 2018, 8:41 PM UTC

monocasa wrote: post #201

tomjakubowski wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be politicians who ignored any of the "IC" analysis that contradicted their claims, and made up their own conclusions from dubious sources of "raw" intelligence like Ahmed Chalabi.

Bullshit. Straight from the CIA's NIE, page 9: > High Confidence: > Iraq is continuing, and in some areas is expanding, its chemical, biological, nuclear and missile programs contrary to UN resolution. > Iraq could make a nuclear weapons in months to a year if it acquired sufficient weapons-grade fissile material. https://www.scribd.com/doc/259216899/Iraq-October-2002-NIE-o... I'm not sure where this "the IC is this…

"The body of the NIE contained several qualifiers that were dropped in the executive summary. The fact that the State Department’s Bureau of Intelligence and Research disagreed with the conclusions was not highlighted.

As the draft NIE went up the intelligence chain of command, the conclusions were treated increasingly definitively. Only the summary of the NIE was partially declassified, and it omitted most of the reservations and nonconforming evidence. The fact that the NIE concluded that there was no operational tie between Saddam and al Qaeda did not offset this alarming assessment."

https://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/research_reports/...

I wouldn't call the IC or even the CIA "blameless" for Iraq either and I don't appreciate you putting the word in my mouth (we also probably share a generally sour view of the CIA - they have done too many godawful destabilizing things around the world). The IC weren't the ones ordering the troops to invade any country on flimsy politically-massaged evidence though.