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Sqlite: Code Of Conduct

sqlite.org

281–290 of 301 posts

Re: Sqlite: Code Of Conduct

#281
post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, I follow the categorical imperative myself. The author had a chance to make his CoC the golden rule. But instead he made a deeply religious statement. He has full right to do what he wants, but to also claim that this is somehow inclusive because you can close your eyes to things incompatible with you is nonsense, sorry. All religions teach largely the same good things, but you generally won't see their devotee…

Swallow how though? Feel dirty when submitting a patch? I really don't understand the west's fascination with these codes and statements. Why not just do your work and avoid drama? By standing up for/against things like CoC as opposed to actual incidents, nothing is really achieved except - I believe the term is bike shedding? Open source exists so that everyone can contribute their talents to something that benefits…

> I really don't understand the west's fascination with these codes and statements. Why not just do your work and avoid drama?

And you will never understand it if you look at "the west" as a single organism. Its millions of people with different opinions. They don't have to be consistent with each other.

CoCs exist to promote desired (usually understood as "professional") communication and collaboration standards in open source projects. People who want to bring their political or religious agenda into those CoCs are indeed largely undesired even in "the west", that's why this particular CoC riled up so much attention.

> Why not just do your work and avoid drama?

I'd love that, and I'm doing that. But I'm not a "turn the other cheek" kind of person, and I'll call out bullshit when I see it. This here is bullshit.

> If Joseph Stalin or bin Laden wrote a great patch, I'd want it. We'd all be better for it.

That theoretical programmer-Bin-Laden would never contribute a patch to a project with SQLite's new CoC because it is incompatible with his faith. You said we would be better off if he did, so by your own logic such a religious CoC is detrimental to us, which is why it is a problem.

> It doesn't have to be the SQLite mailing list. It is not a sensible place to have these other types of ideological battles.

Indeed, it is not a sensible place because SQLite itself is not a sensible place for religion. But its author made it a place for religion, with very predictable consequences.

> Here in the third world life is hard.

> I find perhaps the greatest "white privilege" [...], is having the luxury of debating CoCs instead of supporting yourself and your family.

That's perhaps a bit of an overstatement, and definitely a false dichotomy. Moreover, here you are enjoying the same white privilege in the third world. A bit hypocritical to accuse others of something you yourself are engaging in, don't you think?

Re: Sqlite: Code Of Conduct

#282
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure, if you are offended by the word God, you can substitute another word, such as "Ayn Rand" or "the human intellect". Nobodys insisting that you have to do...anything really.

I am not offended by someone's personally held religious beliefs. I am, however, deliberately excluded if participating means adhering to a code of conduct that targets my beliefs.

Read the CoC more carefully. Adherence is not mandatory.

Re: Sqlite: Code Of Conduct

#283
post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although I vehemently disagree with the beliefs of Muslims, I have always had a great deal of respect for the fact that they are unapologetic about them. I, for one, appreciate this whole thing. If I were required to love Osama bin Laden, well, my Lord Himself requires us to 'love our enemies', and 'pray for those who persecute you'. There is no religious discrimination here. It appears that some seem to believe that…

You’re breaking the rules if you’re not Christian. How is that not discrimination?

> In the future, should someone wish to become a core developer of SQLite and is in every way qualified except that he or she does not feel comfortable with some details of this rule (for example, the overtly religious elements), then appropriate adjustments can be made at that point. The objective of the rule is not to impose a particular religious creed, but rather to use time-tested behavioral guidelines to promote a productive and peaceful community.

Re: Sqlite: Code Of Conduct

#285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

#1 on the list is: First of all, love the Lord God with your whole heart, your whole soul, and your whole strength. I'm an atheist - I am unable and unwilling to comply with this CoC. So yes, I would say that I am affected. Other well known religious folk in the foss world, such as Larry Wall, do not insist on this kind of exclusion.

Good news, the CoC is inclusive for you, with the following: "those who wish to participate" ... "are expected to conduct themselves in a manner that honors the overarching spirit of the rule, even if they disagree with specific details. Polite and professional discussion is always welcomed, from anyone ." In other words, calm down.

In other words, hot air.

Something written, without the explicit goal of being enforced, or expected, whatsoever.

He could have equally written: "We expect those participating in the SQLite project to murder at least three people by Sunday - but if you don't do it, it is fine too"

Re: Sqlite: Code Of Conduct

#286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good news, the CoC is inclusive for you, with the following: "those who wish to participate" ... "are expected to conduct themselves in a manner that honors the overarching spirit of the rule, even if they disagree with specific details. Polite and professional discussion is always welcomed, from anyone ." In other words, calm down.

It's weird, though, right? I mean, flip the logic. What if someone had a code of conduct that was clearly about people treating each other well...but started it with "First, you must acknowledge that there is no God." Or "First you must acknowledge that Mohammad is God's messenger." Or "First you must accept the mitzvot as binding." Or "Brahman is Truth and Reality." None of these is promoting inclusion. That said: I…

Your logic is at fault, at least regarding atheists: atheists are expected to be tolerant of religious beliefs, but no religious person is expected to be tolerant of atheist (non-) beliefs.

Re: Sqlite: Code Of Conduct

#287
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Those "thousands of diverse communities" include the ones who were using their religion as a pretext to burn heretics/witches, torture homosexuals and in general oppress the weak and the diverse as well as the ones that today are still trying to infuse young people with their toxic shame when they are non-conforming. Wow, those Benedictine monks have really been up to some heavy shit.

Traditionaly, burning heretics was a State matter, guilt was decided by a special group, the Inquisition. Heretics were burned (or had other punishment against them, like fines, emprisonment, prayers or house arrests) because it was a state matter, following the principle of Religion of the King = Religion of the People.

I see what you did there!

Religion and Church are not to be blame, since as soon as there is any blame going around, the State, and not religion / church, is responsible!

Sleak!

Re: Sqlite: Code Of Conduct

#288
post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless there's enforcement, it's useless as a code of conduct.

Why? Why are people so concerned with "enforcement", which is basically "punishment"? A code of conduct should be nothing more than a set of guidelines which contributors should aspire to meet. It's not a legal text, and it's not a religious text. We are free participants in projects, not unwilling subjects to be disciplined. We've gone from projects where one was expected to behave properly, and if not would be poli…

I have a non-enforceable CoC for you:

"To participate in this community, you need to kill three people by Sunday"

Simple. Also, I hope you have nothing against it, since it is not enforceable.

Re: Sqlite: Code Of Conduct

#289
post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who hold religious beliefs that people following this code spent hundreds of years trying to stamp out with violence probably have a different context that people to whom it is merely irrelevant.

The CoC does not require religious belief in the least. They are secular rules. By this same logic, we should reject all scientific research that predates nation state funding.

You might have missed these:

> First of all, love the Lord God with your whole heart, your whole soul, and your whole strength.

> Deny oneself in order to follow Christ.

> Prefer nothing more than the love of Christ.

> Put your hope in God.

> Attribute to God, and not to self, whatever good you see in yourself.

> Fear the Day of Judgment.

> Be in dread of hell.

> Know for certain that God sees you everywhere.

> When wrongful thoughts come into your heart, dash them against Christ immediately.

> Devote yourself frequently to prayer.

> Daily in your prayers, with tears and sighs, confess your past sins to God, and amend them for the future.

> Obey in all things the commands of those whom God has placed in authority over you even though they (which God forbid) should act otherwise, mindful of the Lord's precept, "Do what they say, but not what they do." (!!!)

> Do not wish to be called holy before one is holy; but first to be holy, that you may be truly so called.

> Fulfill God's commandments daily in your deeds.

> Pray for your enemies in the love of Christ.

> Never despair of God's mercy.

Re: Sqlite: Code Of Conduct

#290
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it mentions Christ 4 times ...

Other CoCs mention other idealizations lots of times.

Sure. My comment was in reply to a comment which said that this:

> This code of conduct that requires members to honor Christ

was not true.

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