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Denmark to ban petrol and diesel car sales by 2030

euractiv.com

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Re: Denmark to ban petrol and diesel car sales by 2030

#281

Post by emiliobumachar »

logifail wrote: post #234
nielsbot wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, some ICE may remain around for special uses, but I guess the vast majority of people will be fine w an electric car. (Especially in 2030)

By coincidence, I'll be picking up a brand new (ICE) vehicle from my dealer in just over 12 hours' time. The electric version of the vehicle I'm buying costs just a shade over twice as much(!) as the ICE version. I'm not fine paying more than twice as much for a product that in many respects is "less good".

Good point, but how much of that is the manufacturer pre-compensating itself for all the extra maintenance that it won't sell you?

Re: Denmark to ban petrol and diesel car sales by 2030

#282

Post by thinkling »

llukas wrote: post #262
thinkling wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I share your parent's skepticism. It seems obvious that cars sold in the US are not averaging 37 MPG when the average car is roughly a RAV4 that gets 22/29.(EDIT: It occurs to me that the RAV4 may be classified as a light truck -- even so, I can go pick a passenger car...) As far as I can tell taking a quick look at your links, the difference can be in two things. First, these are fuel economy standards companies are…

If you compare US cars to EU cars on average then: - EU cars are much smaller - hp of engines is much lower > "skepticism" "It seems obvious" Pick one please.

I wasn't saying anything about EU cars -- why are you bringing that up?

I am skeptical of the 37mpg claim because it seems clear to me that the average car sold in the US isn't that efficient. What's the contradiction?

Re: Denmark to ban petrol and diesel car sales by 2030

#283

Post by BonjelaSoup »

noobermin wrote: post #241

People especially here constantly rail against Europe, specifically their start-up scene, against taxes, against regulations, etc. At the same time, our cities are unlivable, inaccessible, crowded, our infrastructure is falling apart, a widening gap between the wealthy and the poor causing increases in homelessness in cities and opiod addiction in rural areas. Western Europe isn't utopia, but in many areas, their pol…

> "People especially here constantly rail against Europe"

> "our cities"

Where is "here" and "our cities"?

Re: Denmark to ban petrol and diesel car sales by 2030

#284

Post by Taniwha »

snowwindwaves wrote: post #273
indemnity wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my country (New Zealand) the fuel tax goes into the infrastructure fund which keeps roads maintained. It also funds public transport. We’re going go have to come up with creative solutions when most vehicles are electric.

In NZ Diesel vehicles have to pay a tax per km driven but it is not paid at the pump. You buy a sticker that says what odometer reading you have paid up to. Get a fine if odometer reads higher than sticker. Same mechanism can work for electric cars

In fact electric cars did have to do that until a few years ago when the mileage tax was removed to encourage electric cars

Re: Denmark to ban petrol and diesel car sales by 2030

#285

Post by zidel »

anticensor wrote: post #140
vegardx wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps they do? In Norway you're going to have a hard time finding a petrol or diesel car that fits the government requirements. See §5: https://lovdata.no/dokument/SF/forskrift/2017-12-11-1995/§5

Why are buses exempt? Too cold for electric buses?

Oslo has six electric buses in use right now, and will add 70 more by next summer so electric is absolutely an option, but this is a pretty recent development. Much like Denmark none of the major parties here want to actually enforce the 2025 "ban" on fossil fuel cars either, so we can't really expect anything to happen to buses either (at the national level). On the local level the public transit in the Oslo metro area is planning to be fossil fuel free in 2020 and zero emission in 2028.

Re: Denmark to ban petrol and diesel car sales by 2030

#286

Post by nojvek »

BonjelaSoup wrote: post #283
noobermin wrote: post #241

People especially here constantly rail against Europe, specifically their start-up scene, against taxes, against regulations, etc. At the same time, our cities are unlivable, inaccessible, crowded, our infrastructure is falling apart, a widening gap between the wealthy and the poor causing increases in homelessness in cities and opiod addiction in rural areas. Western Europe isn't utopia, but in many areas, their pol…

> "People especially here constantly rail against Europe" > "our cities" Where is "here" and "our cities"?

Most likely US

Re: Denmark to ban petrol and diesel car sales by 2030

#287

Post by unit91 »

noobermin wrote: post #241

People especially here constantly rail against Europe, specifically their start-up scene, against taxes, against regulations, etc. At the same time, our cities are unlivable, inaccessible, crowded, our infrastructure is falling apart, a widening gap between the wealthy and the poor causing increases in homelessness in cities and opiod addiction in rural areas. Western Europe isn't utopia, but in many areas, their pol…

> our cities are unlivable

false by definition

Re: Denmark to ban petrol and diesel car sales by 2030

#288

Post by dsfyu404ed »

wongarsu wrote: post #259
tom_ wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure? There are cars that are that efficient, but as an average ? In real life?

The average European car is very different from the average US car. The most sold cars in the US are the Ford F series, in the EU it's the VW Golf and similar hatchbacks. There are a lot of forces at play here, among others tax rates (which cause the F150 to get bigger and European cars to get lighter), fuel prices, culture (in Europe a big truck won't impress anyone, you get other types of cars for that), average an…

That's kind of a bad comparison because the Ford F-Series (or any other pickup platform) is many different vehicles under one name.

Re: Denmark to ban petrol and diesel car sales by 2030

#289

Post by reaperducer »

wongarsu wrote: post #259
tom_ wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure? There are cars that are that efficient, but as an average ? In real life?

The average European car is very different from the average US car. The most sold cars in the US are the Ford F series, in the EU it's the VW Golf and similar hatchbacks. There are a lot of forces at play here, among others tax rates (which cause the F150 to get bigger and European cars to get lighter), fuel prices, culture (in Europe a big truck won't impress anyone, you get other types of cars for that), average an…

in Europe nobody fantasizes about roadtrips

That's an interesting tidbit. I always thought that they did. I thought the automotive term "GT" meant "Grand Tour" and was European in inspiration.

That's what I get for culling most of my European auto culture information from Top Gear.

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