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In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

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Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#281

Post by drukenemo »

thanatropism wrote: post #246

Rio is known for its culture of ambiguity. Another classic is "let's get together sometimes" (which means "dude, I totally don't hate you so let's be on each other's background social circle but never get together sometimes"). And its friendlier varient "come by my home sometimes to visit". (Don't go. It means they like you, but just don't show up unannounced). Everyone is on about how São Paulo is much more business…

Have you ever heard of the coconut vs peach theory?

https://x-culture.org/peach-vs-coconut-cultures/

Seems like cariocas are peach and paulistas (people from São Paulo) are coconut.

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#282

Post by [deleted] »

alokrai wrote: post #201
sonnyblarney wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I agree with that, however, their dogma is reasonable. And no the Greeks destroyed their own economy though systematic hard and soft corruption, knowingly hiding irregularities, unwillingness to make any necessary reforms, etc. etc.. The IMF's 'dogma' operates under the assumption that there are conscientious, reasonable and rational actors on the other side of the loan. One might argue that it is this assumptio…

The fact that the Greek state is incompetent or corrupt was not unknown before the crisis. The banks granted loans to Greece knowing that the Greek state was incapable of paying back because they were certain that ECB (or EU) would guarantee their loans. If you are assigning moral faults, then please do so for the banks too who made their loans knowing the facts & assuming that they would be bailed out by EU if thing…

[deleted]

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#283

Post by Guest9812398 »

senorjazz wrote: post #206
MadSudaca wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to me that #1 is a matter of lack of responsibility. In the US if you dig a hole and someone falls in it because there were no signs, I think you'd get sued to hell. The company, if it survices, would find who's responsible for the bad decision of not putting any signs, and punish that person accordingly for their lack of foresight. Next time that or another person, if they learned from the mistake, will be…

because it is your responsibility not to walk blindly into a hole. Why the US is so blame happy, rather than personal responsibility, that is the question. -------------------- Just different cultures

There definitely needs to be some kind of balance. For example, when I was in Asia, one city had random holes in the sidewalk at least every 100ft. They looked similar to the below and went into the sewer.

https://i.imgur.com/pw4iYk8.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/1Am87Yq.jpg

If you accidentally stepped in one of the holes, you could be seriously injured, or potentially have a life threatening injury if you're elderly.

At night time the street lights are very dim, and I only walked on the road, because I didn't have a flashlight and the sidewalk was too unsafe.

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#284

Post by pc86 »

dbcurtis wrote: post #33
poulsbohemian wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on the culture. Historically if you told a German 5:00, that meant 5:00 - nor 4:59, not 5:01. "Fashionably late" is an American thing.

Well, not everywhere. I move to Cal from Minnesota. Ethnically, Minnesota is heavily German and Scandanavian. Germanic puctuality is more the norm (or at least was when I was a kid).

Central PA has a strong Germanic/PA Dutch influence and most of the time folks are still very punctual, the two notable exceptions having already been mentioned - informal get-togethers like BBQs and late night parties.

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#285

Post by damptowel »

Myrmornis wrote: post #67

Truly absurd generalizations about a vast and complex country. You’d have thought we’d outgrown this sort of crass writing about other countries when we exited the nineteenth century.

I much prefer unhurried cultures, the west takes itself way too seriously.

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#286

Post by AlexB138 »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #277
AlexB138 wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In many societies they mutilate the genitals of female children. In many others they carry out honor killings when a member of the family acts, as they see it, incorrectly. These are two examples of aspect of society that vary from culture to culture. Cultural relativism is largely nonsense. Leaving a giant pit in the road for people to drive into is objectively a dangerous and selfish thing to do. Whether the expect…

This is exactly the "where I draw the line (as a result of the culture in which I was raised and live) is right and everyone else is wrong" way of thinking that I was complaining about. The point I'm trying to illustrate is that where people draw the line on personal responsibility to do things to protect other people vs people's responsibility to look out for themselves varies greatly based on their culture and righ…

Fair enough, that is a much more nuanced point than I originally took you to be making. I apologize for the misreading.

I think most of us would agree that the line is "when your negligence could likely and predictably lead to severe harm to others". As you've pointed out, there are a lot of details to decide there, and different cultures will figure those differently.

I do think that it is fair to say that leaving an unmarked pit in a road is, objectively, over the line though (as are my extreme examples). It could easily, predictably, lead to someone's death through no fault of their own, and is easily prevented. That balance between burden imposed to prevent harm and ability for individuals to protect themselves from that harm is important, I think.

I wish I had more time to mull this over and discuss with you, as I think there are a lot of interesting questions there.

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#287

Post by abledon »

skgoa wrote: post #169
jacobwilliamroy wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Korean time" used to be a thing. Before the "Miracle on the Han river" (which was actually a carefully orchestrated economic development program run by the South Korean government and not a "miracle" at all) South Korea was one of the poorest countries on earth.

Likewise, Germans were used or being drunk, largely unproductive and simple people. Then Prussia conquered conquered a large number of the german principalities and forced the other ones to join in a new German Empire. A massive economic boom followed, during which Germany was thoroughly industrialized.

Did you read a book on this?

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#288

Post by guilhas »

axilmar wrote: post #147

While everyone here says it's a cultural difference between Brazilians and, for example, Germans, please let me express a different viewpoint. To me it seems the reason Brazilians (and others, for example, Greeks, Indians, Italians etc) are not very punctual is the weather conditions. The weather conditions, which are more relaxed in these countries, have allowed people to form a culture where they can be more relaxe…

Also in Portugal. my boss used to say "I'll start scheduling meetings 15min later so everyone shows at same time."

We are also less strict on leaving time, compared with Germany, or UK.

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#289

Post by AlexB138 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #269
rescbr wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A train that leaves the station on time in Brazil would probably not be much appreciated. Oh, it would be, as a train (or plane) is expected to depart at the right time. People get up and queue for their plane 15 minutes before boarding time, even though they have marked seats and boarding groups. A meeting starting at the right time? Inconceivable.

> A meeting starting at the right time? Inconceivable I found a solution to this problem which is as effective as it is potentially insulting, and so is best left for later in one's career. Schedule a few more days than you think you'll need. Show up for meetings 15 minutes early and then, after waiting 15 minutes, leave. When asked about it, play dumb and imply you thought you got the time or location wrong. Resched…

> .. you'll have isolated the most ambitious people ... forged a solid and mutually-respectful working relationship with them

You'll have found people who are willing to play petty games instead of having frank conversations about expectations. Those sorts of things are anything but mutually-respectful and encourage future childish behavior. There is nothing wrong with explaining "The meeting starts at noon. I expect everyone attending to be there at noon, and the meeting will be canceled if you're not there on time", there is a problem with expecting people to read your mind when their default mode of operation is to act differently than you expect.

Re: In Brazil, it is considered rude to be on time to a party

#290

Post by heurist »

AlexB138 wrote: post #271
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cultural relativism is largely nonsense There are multiple optima on the cultural space. Americans' individualistic and Scandinavians' committee-loving systems both work well, and optimize for a complimentary set of problems. Saying "ignore the students–go to the beach," on the other hand, is an objectively worse cultural tenet than "balance everyone's needs."

Absolutely. In no way would I argue "It's what the West does, therefore it's right", and being aware of the "it's how we do it, so it's right" bias is worthwhile. There are definitely equally viable alternatives to many cultural norms. Unmarked pits in the road is not one, and I find the desire to treat all alternatives as equal, and a matter of culture, unsettling.

If you want to lure Feynman back to give more lectures, you roll out the red carpet the first time he comes. That's sales, not culture.
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