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The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

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Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#281

Post by l9k »

dralley wrote: post #186
l9k wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compare internet to library: Free: Transportation to go to your library (2x train ticket, or car + gas): minimum ~$5 / day so $60 a month, plus library card if not free Instantly: ~30 minutes to go, 30 minutes to get back home, depending on where you live. Worst internet connection need a few seconds. Anywhere: you have to physically go to the one library and hope you find the book you're looking for. Nowadays you ha…

Are you dense? You ignored all of their points. A homeless person won't have an internet connection or a computer. A poor person won't necessarily have a computer. Internet in some rural areas is not just slow, but also spotty.

No need for name-calling on here please.

For the large majority of people (95%+), as per my last message, the library is not always preferable in terms of cost, distance and availability, that's all. There are reasons most people don't go. But for some, libraries are still relevant. Please notice that I never said the libraries are useless.

Even a poor rural person, usually working a lot and living far from a city center, might not have the time nor the financial resources to often go to the library.

Also, I've seen homeless people with a cheap tablet in NYC streets using the Link NYC hotspots [1] for free charging and WiFi.

[1] https://www.link.nyc/

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#282

Post by l9k »

convolvatron wrote: post #242
l9k wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compare internet to library: Free: Transportation to go to your library (2x train ticket, or car + gas): minimum ~$5 / day so $60 a month, plus library card if not free Instantly: ~30 minutes to go, 30 minutes to get back home, depending on where you live. Worst internet connection need a few seconds. Anywhere: you have to physically go to the one library and hope you find the book you're looking for. Nowadays you ha…

I did research before the internet had all this content. I lived on the east coast, so it was possible for me to take a day trip to the LOC. there I could spent all day and a sackful of dimes to execute 4-5 cycles of following references before they shut down for the night. then carry my box full of photocopies with oddly clipped margins back to my office for digestion. so sure, that sucked in comparison, but no one…

I agree with you about the tracking/monetization problem.

My first comment was just about cost and (spatial/temporal) availability, in response to the parent.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#283

Post by tingletech »

neuromantik8086 wrote: post #258
neuromantik8086 wrote: post #244

As someone who works in an academic library (which has very different needs from a public library), while I would disagree that libraries need "disruption" (which conjures up imagery of a librarian shushing me in the stacks for talking), there is a real need for tech talent. Most techies are lured away from programming for libraries by the private sector, which leaves us with an overabundance of clunky, expensive sof…

Another problem is that librarians themselves sometimes don't have the technical (in the sense of computing literacy; "technical" is a bit of loaded term in libraries because it can refer to collection maintenance [0]) skills necessary to do well in their jobs. Sometimes this is due to the era the librarian started in (a lot of librarians got their MLIS degree before computing was as prominent as it is now and haven'…

Interesting, on the other hand I've worked with a lot of technically sophisticated librarians and archivists.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#284

Post by mmt »

ryandrake wrote: post #194
ianai wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ime, the “disrupted” products I’ve purchased were way over priced and fragile or worthless. Not just from amazon either. Oh and of course they come with daily spam.

Don’t forget they also phone home with too much data about you and try to second guess you. I’m about ready to throw away my “smart” thermostat and replace it with a model from the 1980s with a dial that stays where I set it and no unnecessary internet connectivity.

After trying a couple of the other "internet" thermostats (not Nest, though, that was too obviously creepy), I ended up springing for a Proliphix IMT550c, which I had to wait for a while to show up on eBay, since they stopped selling direct to consumers quite a while back.

It's not exactly open, but it's reasonably hackable, and works just fine with no direct access to the Internet. I've never tried the wifi model (replace the "c" in the model with a "w", IIRC), since avoiding wireless issues was part of what drove me to this model in the first place.

Security's almost completely absent, so you'd want to keep it on an isolated network with no direct Internet access, anyway.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#285

Post by NeedMoreTea »

dm319 wrote: post #201
stcredzero wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you imagine Netflix or Amazon, Google or Facebook behaving this way? This is the difference between having a sense of civic duty and community vs. not. The customer/business relationship is a poor substitute for the real thing, even when they try to foster the trappings of false "community." there was a time when people considered the idea of an institution having a long and complete list of everything you've rea…

> having a sense of civic duty and community vs. not A sense of civic duty? These words sounds like they are from another period. I think this is low in the mindshare of the population of many western countries. As a society we're mostly concerned with personal progress, social influence and monetisation.

Community died some time in the 1980s with the rise of "loads of money", and famous politicians stating "there's no such thing as society any more".

It used to be that people would make a living then give something back in later life - either public service such as becoming a politician or joining one of the many societies like the Rotary Club that performs philanthropic acts.

Now politics is a career, philanthropy is the preserve of the astonishingly wealthy and everyone cares about nothing but self, making a buck and what they can get.

We lost a huge amount in that process. I sincerely hope we see it rise again sometime soon.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#286

Post by mehblahwhatevs »

epalmer wrote: post #278
sixdimensional wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does one become a librarian? I've thought about it my whole life. It almost feels like the vocation I've been called to but never realized.

A masters in Library Science or equivalent is almost always required. Typically (from my casual research) people are hired that have other prior library experience and can show a lifelong love of books. New masters degrees (master in information science at Fla State for example) have an ability to have more exposure to UI design, media creation, digital metadata and more.

Realistically, and I mean no disrespect to the profession or your daughter who is studying it, but why is a degree required here? And a master's at that?

What exactly do they do that requires knowledge?

My assumption is they shelve books, maybe make recommendations, and hold weekly community events? And nowadays, help with social services like helping people create resumes and what not?

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#288

Post by sixdimensional »

epalmer wrote: post #278
sixdimensional wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does one become a librarian? I've thought about it my whole life. It almost feels like the vocation I've been called to but never realized.

A masters in Library Science or equivalent is almost always required. Typically (from my casual research) people are hired that have other prior library experience and can show a lifelong love of books. New masters degrees (master in information science at Fla State for example) have an ability to have more exposure to UI design, media creation, digital metadata and more.

That's interesting. I have exactly that degree (MIS), yet, the perception of my education has been much more technical / information systems. Most of the library folk I've spoken to said that information science today really isn't the same as library science and sort of discounted it. I'm not sure if that's some kind of bias that people like me are seen as being overqualified to be a librarian and therefore not considered. Or if the skill-sets really have diverged and these are no longer the same thing (library vs. information science).

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#289

Post by epalmer »

epalmer wrote: post #278
sixdimensional wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does one become a librarian? I've thought about it my whole life. It almost feels like the vocation I've been called to but never realized.

A masters in Library Science or equivalent is almost always required. Typically (from my casual research) people are hired that have other prior library experience and can show a lifelong love of books. New masters degrees (master in information science at Fla State for example) have an ability to have more exposure to UI design, media creation, digital metadata and more.

>Realistically, and I mean no disrespect to the profession or your daughter who is studying it, but why is a degree required here? And a master's at that? What exactly do they do that requires knowledge?

>My assumption is they shelve books, maybe make recommendations, and hold weekly community events? And nowadays, help with social services like helping people create resumes and what not?

Replying to mehblahwhatevs comment which does not have a reply link

No offense taken. The ALA (American Library Association) and libraries have deemed a Master required for as long as I can remember. In community settings, a Masters may not provide that much benefit, other than in getting the job. In academic settings, a Masters helps with taxonomy and other data classification issues and more. Reference librarians face sometimes challenging research problems. Digital librarians need exposure and some practice to tools and techniques. While a Masters does not guarantee that exposure and also that experience can be gained without schooling, libraries seem to like (as in require) the stamp of approval.

It's hard to make a proper living as a librarian when you have to get what is typically a liberal arts UG degree ($$) and a Masters ($$) for jobs that start at the low to mid $40s (US). Crazy huh? My daughter is lucky, her UG degree was 100% free other than room and board, she got in-state tuition for her Masters (VA to FLA because of an agreement that schools have) and earned some significant scholarship $ at Fla State. So her ROI will be more favorable than many other newly minted librarians.

Re: The last thing libraries need is Silicon Valley “disruption.”

#290

Post by epalmer »

mehblahwhatevs wrote: post #286
epalmer wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A masters in Library Science or equivalent is almost always required. Typically (from my casual research) people are hired that have other prior library experience and can show a lifelong love of books. New masters degrees (master in information science at Fla State for example) have an ability to have more exposure to UI design, media creation, digital metadata and more.

Realistically, and I mean no disrespect to the profession or your daughter who is studying it, but why is a degree required here? And a master's at that? What exactly do they do that requires knowledge? My assumption is they shelve books, maybe make recommendations, and hold weekly community events? And nowadays, help with social services like helping people create resumes and what not?

Now the reply button shows up. See my comments above.
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