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European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

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Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#281

Post by glenndebacker »

zmk_ wrote: post #272

I find this fine bizarre. Sure, Android is dominating the European markets, but I find it to be a good thing. I am surprised that the EU commission never investigated Apple. I don't know when they stopped doing it, but Apple used to remove apps from their store that were duplicating Apple provided services. I also think that manufacturers have themselves to thank. AOSP used to be quite complete in the old days, but e…

"Sure, Android is dominating the European markets, but I find it to be a good thing. I am surprised that the EU commission never investigated Apple."

You are answering your own question. The problem is that Apple is not under investigation because it has 15% a 20% marketshare and so it's impact is regarded as rather small and not seen as a monopoly.

When you have a big share of the pie there are other rules that apply and personally I'm fine with that. When you have 80% of the market it can't be all fun and play.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#282

Post by Dayshine »

amelius wrote: post #10

Is this a serious fine, or just a slap on the fingers? Can Google just continue their practices after this?

>Can Google just continue their practices after this?

Seeing as nobody else has read the article.

>If Google fails to ensure compliance with the Commission decision, itwould be liable for non-compliance payments of up to 5% of the average daily worldwide turnover of Alphabet, Google's parent company. The Commission would have to determine such non-compliance in a separate decision, with any payment backdated to when the non-compliance started.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#283

Post by SparklingCotton »

theBobBob wrote: post #103

Very slightly off topic but I actually think how Android handles default apps is the best of both worlds. It comes with very very good default Google Apps that work well together but it is very easy to switch out whatever you want for an alternative. How iOS handles it is the opposite. For their default apps they either straight out not allow competitors, severely limit what their competitors or (if I remember correc…

But what you can do as a user is not really relevant.

I cannot change the defaults in an Android phone and sell it to you. That's the problem.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#284

Post by vixen99 »

flexie wrote: post #155
cncrnd wrote: post #81

This line in the article got to me, "The fine would top the EU’s €2.4 billion antitrust decision against Google just over a year ago." It looks like the EU has created a piggy bank with these regulations on hostage tech corporations. I wonder how much of the large fines is attributed to prosecutors or politicians trying to make a name for themselves. Anyone know how often these record fines hold up on appeal? Edit: W…

The EU is not using Google or any other company as a piggy bank. Google is doing business in the European Union making tens of billions of dollars and they should follow the rules, just like their European, American and Asian competitors. It's not like you have to be a legal genius to know the rules. They are right in the treaty (think of it as the EU constitution) and Google know about the many previous cases interp…

Has someone done some sums on how much is made by users using Google. Might it not be trillions of dollars?

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#285

Post by archi42 »

r_singh wrote: post #259
menegattig wrote: post #244

IMHO, antitrust fines/penalties should change from amount of money to some other type of penalty, like temporary market exclusion/block or something, otherwise companies like Google and others can simply use its cash (that's was also made due to the unfair advantage), pay the fine and move on to the next market dominance. They will always have cash to pay, even if the fines are higher and higher. They kind of expect…

This makes even more sense with context from Google's deal with Apple to make Google Search the default on iPhones for which it pays $3B. Considering that, $5B doesn't seem to be much of a fine to be literally on the head of most smartphones in the world.

That's hefty. But this does affect all major iPhone markets, not the EU alone. So they probably (maybe. I guess.) only put a fraction of that on the bill.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#286

Post by endorphone »

This is a dangerous ruling that pushes the world further into the potential for trade wars by proxy.

Contrary to numerous posts-

-no, the law isn't "clear". This is an incredibly nuanced situation, and the notion that Google was just overtly flouting (ed: thx sjcsjc) the law is outright nonsense. Google has a huge litany of bad practices (I personally recently switched my daily driver to an iPhone for that reason), but simply saying "Surprise....enormous fine" is ridiculous.

-the fine is enormous. Various "well it's only a quarter's earnings across all of Google" are outrageous. Over 6 years Google spent a grand total of $1.1B in all expenses for Waymo, for instance. $5B is an enormous, enormous amount of money for any company.

I highly doubt this will be a "pay it and forget it" fine, but is going to ring across all multinationals as a warning.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#287

Post by r_singh »

archi42 wrote: post #285
r_singh wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This makes even more sense with context from Google's deal with Apple to make Google Search the default on iPhones for which it pays $3B. Considering that, $5B doesn't seem to be much of a fine to be literally on the head of most smartphones in the world.

That's hefty. But this does affect all major iPhone markets, not the EU alone. So they probably (maybe. I guess.) only put a fraction of that on the bill.

It's also worth noting that it's $3B per year that Google pays Apple though.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/14/google-paying-apple-3-billio...

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#288

Post by SparklingCotton »

repolfx wrote: post #174
bendiksolheim wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a source for this? I can’t remember Apple disallowing an app because Apple itself provides a similar app. I checked the default apps quickly on my phone, and can find several competitors for all of them. If you are talking about the "apps" Messages.app or Phone.app then I guess you might be right if we define "not providing a public API" the same as "disallowing on the App Store".

The policy no longer applies but for a long time, from the start of the app store, you weren't allowed to make apps that "duplicated the functionality" of the built in apps. Notably Google made their own maps app and Apple banned it: http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-screws-google-over-lati... But it also applied to iTunes competitors: https://www.engadget.com/2008/09/12/app-disqualified-from-ap...

That's a good reason why fines (like what Google is getting) should be huge.

It's deliberate to kill competition while not being in a dominant position, and then when in a dominant position, continue the trajectory by defining defaults.

The Apple apps are dominant partially because of the abusive rules the app store had earlier. It's quite clear from the fact that in any area where Apple did not have a default app, they are unable to match what the free market offers.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#289

Post by Dayshine »

cncrnd wrote: post #81

This line in the article got to me, "The fine would top the EU’s €2.4 billion antitrust decision against Google just over a year ago." It looks like the EU has created a piggy bank with these regulations on hostage tech corporations. I wonder how much of the large fines is attributed to prosecutors or politicians trying to make a name for themselves. Anyone know how often these record fines hold up on appeal? Edit: W…

>Instead it's going into EU coffers

Lol, you know where the EU spends their money right?

https://europa.eu/european-union/topics/budget_en

6% is spent on admin.

41% is spent on agricultural subsidies and research (e.g. making sure we don't all starve in the future).

46% is spent on development, about 2/3 on helping underdeveloped areas of europe, and 1/3 on helping business growth.

On research alone, $10bn is spent on Horizon 2020, which is one of the pure research funding projects.

Re: European Commission fines Google €4.34B in Android antitrust case

#290

Post by akie »

endorphone wrote: post #286

This is a dangerous ruling that pushes the world further into the potential for trade wars by proxy. Contrary to numerous posts- -no, the law isn't "clear". This is an incredibly nuanced situation, and the notion that Google was just overtly flouting (ed: thx sjcsjc) the law is outright nonsense. Google has a huge litany of bad practices (I personally recently switched my daily driver to an iPhone for that reason), b…

> is going to ring across all multinationals as a warning

I'm not sure how that's a bad thing.

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