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The open-plan office is a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad idea

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Re: The open-plan office is a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad idea

#281

Post by fludlight »

tluyben2 wrote: post #133
RandallBrown wrote: post #117

To throw some more anecdotes in with the rest of the comments, I love open offices. I've had my own office and found it lonely and boring. I never got less work done than at that job. Everything took longer because I had to stand up and walk to talk to my team. Instant messaging sort of worked, but if they didn't respond immediately, you didn't know if it was because they missed the message or they weren't actually i…

That is why it should be a mix. I get zero coding done in an open office. Networking, sales etc yes, but programming nope. None. So a courtyard office works best for me.

What's a courtyard office?

Re: The open-plan office is a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad idea

#282

Post by ThrustVectoring »

Open offices would probably work a hell of a lot better if people paid any attention whatsoever to acoustics. Put up thick carpeting over the floor, noise reducing curtains over the windows, and tile the walls + ceiling with acoustical panels. Basically you want the reflected noise of conversations to be minimal - that way, people don't increase their speaking volume to be heard over ambient noise, and the room ends up a hell of a lot quieter.

Re: The open-plan office is a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad idea

#283

Post by mlthoughts2018 »

ghaff wrote: post #118
mlthoughts2018 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“flexdesks” or “hot desking” is just about the most juvenile reaction to working from home I can imagine. If a company believes it will gain more from “saving money” on open plan offices or hot desking than it will from just paying more to facilitate more and better work from employees through buying the best tools (a private office is a tool like a keyboard or ergonomic chair), it’s self-evidently a company to get f…

It really depends. I work mostly from home but I do have a cube in the local office. If we got tight for space, it would absolutely make sense to give away my space to someone who would use it more and have me just grab an open chair for those times I have meetings or other reasons to be in the office. If I had a private office, I would still work from home most of the time. A private office doesn't eliminate a commu…

> “If we got tight for space, it would absolutely make sense to give away my space to someone who would use it more and have me just grab an open chair for those times I have meetings or other reasons to be in the office.”

Why would this make more sense than moving to a bigger office or building more space for the new employee to have a desk without taking yours? Cost is absolutely not an answer.

Re: The open-plan office is a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad idea

#284

Post by Florin_Andrei »

fsloth wrote: post #197
tombert wrote: post #6

The argument of "increased collaboration" that I keep hearing is kind of negated when people have the soccer game on and you're bombarded with constant cheering, which is my current situation. Even when soccer is over, you have to contend with people playing grab-ass all over the office, or jerks (like me) with annoyingly loud keyboards. The modicum of utility of me "jumping into a conversation" really goes out the w…

The increased collaboration angle is most likely bs. According to this study open offices do reduce face to face communications: http://rstb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/373/1753/2017... The only two rational factors why anyone would choose open office: 1. the floor space really is so expensive you can waste xx% of capital output of labour. 2. You inherit a dysfunctional organization or just a one you cannot tr…

> You don't really have an opinion what consitutes a good working space but open offices seem to be trendy ("It's what the big boys are doing") and a consultant made you an offer to redesign your office space, so, why not.

I'm pretty sure the lemming see, lemming do explanation is one of the top actual reasons.

Re: The open-plan office is a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad idea

#285

Post by Florin_Andrei »

hw wrote: post #237
tombert wrote: post #6

The argument of "increased collaboration" that I keep hearing is kind of negated when people have the soccer game on and you're bombarded with constant cheering, which is my current situation. Even when soccer is over, you have to contend with people playing grab-ass all over the office, or jerks (like me) with annoyingly loud keyboards. The modicum of utility of me "jumping into a conversation" really goes out the w…

I think it's less about increased collaboration but more about fostering culture and relationships between team members. Imagine a soccer team where everyone trains independently and only heads in to the office for video sessions. Teams with good culture, good bond between team members, often succeed (there's a particular sports team in the Oakland that is a good example).

> Imagine a soccer team where everyone trains independently and only heads in to the office for video sessions.

Riiight, because soccer and office work are so similar!

/s

Re: The open-plan office is a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad idea

#286

Post by mlthoughts2018 »

RandallBrown wrote: post #130
mlthoughts2018 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if a worker needs personalized space, like certain lighting, ergonomic chair & keyboard, works on a special desktop station not with a portable laptop, etc.? Also, in every job I’ve had, the tasks I am asked to complete always require absolute quiet, private concentration time, for most hours on almost all days. The same has been true for most colleagues in each of these businesses, across all different software…

> What if a worker needs personalized space, like certain lighting, ergonomic chair & keyboard, works on a special desktop station not with a portable laptop, etc.? They would set their stuff up in the space that best fit their needs or even work from home.

What do you mean? The nature of needing to customize your space is fundamentally incompatible with sitting in a large open plan space. How could you “set [your] stuff up” in an open plan area?

For example, suppose there is harsh overhead fluorescent lighting above your desk. But you require soft lighting from a desk lamp for eye comfort. In a private office, you can bring in a lamp. If you bring in a lamp to your open-plan desk, it’s futile, because the harsh communal lighting is enforced on you, not customizable.

Re: The open-plan office is a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad idea

#287

Post by cimmanom »

ThrustVectoring wrote: post #276
cimmanom wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Finding over-ear gear that works well with glasses can be problematic, tho

Laser eye surgery is a fantastic choice as well, tbh.

I've heard too many nightmare stories, even from people who went to the most reputable providers. Not gonna screw with my vision, thanks.

Re: The open-plan office is a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad idea

#288

Post by Florin_Andrei »

tombert wrote: post #80
watwut wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is "grab-ass all over the office"? I tried to google it to find whether it is expression, but got tons of porn as result.

Ah, sorry, it's a bit of local expression from where I grew up. People would say "grab-ass" when people are running/playing around and yelling like children at the office. It's not too uncommon for startups to have Nerf guns or something.

Yup. Nerf guns, indoors basketball, watching soccer games - I've seen it all.

One day I'll write that book I keep thinking about. It'll be glorious.

Re: The open-plan office is a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad idea

#289

Post by cimmanom »

mikestew wrote: post #275
cimmanom wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of my colleagues brings his 5-y/o to work once a week (open office of course), and let me tell you: a chattering, running, squealing kid is even more distracting than the dogs and televisions put together.

Yeah, had a dev manager that used to bring his daughter, who I'd guess to be around 10. She was so noisy and obnoxious, I seriously thought she had a mental disability, so I cut her some slack ( not that it suddenly made it okay to take her to work). And then I figured out that she was just undisciplined... That same office (which, as I'm sure you have figured out, was an open office) allowed dogs. Mostly fine, I'd t…

So much this. Workplaces used to be for working. Then you could go home after 8 hours and let go. Now you spend 12 hours getting half the work done because the office is no longer a workplace but a hangout.

Re: The open-plan office is a terrible, horrible, no good, very bad idea

#290

Post by kingbirdy »

telchar wrote: post #252
loco5niner wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've done this. I have a whole collection of over-the-ear ear-protection. I can still hear my co-workers. It also made my tinnitus worse. Thanks though.

You could go the opposite route: good earplugs with good noise canceling over-ear headphones. The advantage of this over the other setup is that the minimum effective volume from music is lower, protecting against tinnitus. I had the same issues and found this setup works well for me. As an added bonus the obvious rigamarole I have to go through when a coworker taps me on the shoulder makes them more likely to send a…

What's the difference you notice in the "earbuds + noise cancelling headphones" setup vs using the noise cancelling headphones to also play music?
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