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US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

zdnet.com

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Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#281

Post by raesene9 »

erw1 wrote: post #255
raesene9 wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if you want to get it to blow up then (based on past experience of what seems to catch regulator/legislator interest) I'd say that someone tracking the locations of a load of politicians for a while, finding things of interest about places they've visited and then publishing on a news outlet would do the job.

Will it blow up, even if the public is aware? When Snowden revealed the extent of NSA activities, it caused a momentary uproar but the people moved on pretty quickly after that. As far as I know (and let me know if I am wrong!!), there was no fallout for the government, and business continues as before. So I am not sure if people will care this time either.

Snowdens' revelations had a massive effect on the tech. sector.

It provided security people with ammunition to push things like encryption of data over "private" network connections, which prevented their misuse by governments (or at least made it harder)

It also pushed tech. companies to publicly take positions on government spying, in general by insisting they wouldn't co-operate.

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#282

Post by lotsofpulp »

pacala wrote: post #180
droopybuns wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does one determine which tower to route an incoming call through, in your model? How could roaming work? Spoiler: I don’t think doing what you are describing is feasible.

Spoiler. The utility of the live call is overstated. Most of the people I interact via a phone vastly prefer async SMS over sync voice calls. We can do SMS via polling, the network doesn't need to push anything to us.

People text so much because there is an expectation the other person is going to respond pretty quickly. There is definitely value derived from having people accessible all the time, and I doubt a service would sell if people weren't.

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#283

Post by dcreemer »

justaguyhere wrote: post #247
random6547545 wrote: post #44

Throwaway account. I work in location / mapping / geo. Some of us have been waiting for this to blow (which it hasn't yet). The public has zero idea how much personal location data is available. It's not just your cell carrier. Your cell phone chip manufacturer, GPS chip manufacturer, phone manufacturer and then pretty much anyone on the installed OS (android crapware) is getting a copy of your location data. Usually…

Is it this bad in other countries too? Or just U.S?

The article mentions Canadian carriers too.

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#284

Post by erikpukinskis »

superkuh wrote: post #269
erikpukinskis wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about a decentralized networks over 802.11? It wouldn’t be a total solution, because access points get hacked, etc. but it would make the data a lot fuzzier.

The reason that cell phone networks actually work (they're effectively decentralized networks) is that they pay the big bucks to rent space on high towers, building roofs, etc. The only thing that matters for radio communications is line of sight. The only thing that gives you line of sight is relative height. The only thing that gives you consistent height is money.

Voice over WiFi definintely works. I don’t think “works” is the word you are looking for. “Won’t have great coverage” is maybe what you were going for.

A WiFi-based network with stronger privacy characteristics would be valuable to the small part of the market who cares more about privacy than coverage. Those people exist, ya?

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#285

Post by kevcampb »

fixermark wrote: post #259
kevcampb wrote: post #25

Carriers have been providing these services to 3rd party providers since at least 2006 https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2006/feb/01/news.g2 A few points to note: * Obtaining consent is entirely left to the provider to implement. It does not appear to have any auditing. A provider can query any number they like. * The opt-in process used by many providers is easy to exploit, by spoofing SMS replies or abusing th…

Is it even considered an exploit? It's a cell carrier providing data about the radio communications between hardware they own and someone else. At a moral level, seems somewhat equivalent to a web server providing data about clients that access the server. To opt out, stop using some third-party corporation's owned hardware to route your communications near lightspeed around the world. Hey, the Amish communities may…

I'm not clear if you missed the point here? This isn't aggregate data, it's obtaining the location of a specific individual just by knowing their phone number. It can be done without their knowledge or consent.

By your webserver analogy, the equivalent would be more akin to google publishing the contact details and search queries of anyone using the service.

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#286

Post by ihsw2 »

assblaster wrote: post #4

The most obvious use of the data appears to be by credit card companies to detect fraudulent use of a card and decline those transactions. This is something I'm relatively comfortable with, though it's plainly in the interests of the bank and I only indirectly benefit from the tracking.

How do you expect this data to be used in your favor? If there is a technical glitch/human error and your data is intermingled with someone else's, it will be used against you silently and you will have no recourse.

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#288

Post by trendia »

fixermark wrote: post #262
Mononokay wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you feel guilt over creating them?

Should they? The vast quantity of users find it incredibly useful and have no reason to be concerned about governments or third parties being able to determine their geographic location, because governments or third parties don't generally care.

Cambridge Analytica did far more with far less.

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#289

Post by code4tee »

I was aware the cell phone companies were selling anonymized data for some time (not revealing the numbers and adding some jitter to the location data to avoid identifying users).

This is the first I’m hearing that they’re releasing detailed personal tracking by phone number. When I sat in on a recent presentation with Verizon execs they flat out said they were not doing this. Oops.

Re: US cell carriers are selling access to real-time phone location data

#290

Post by xexers »

itchyjunk wrote: post #36

I am starting to wonder what all have I consented to? Every week I learn I have consented to this and that because of a news article as I never read those contracts or TOS. I wonder if there will be a way to phrase long contracts into bullet list of ideas for someone simple minded like me in the near future.

You would need 76 work days per year to keep up with reading all of your TOS

http://techland.time.com/2012/03/06/youd-need-76-work-days-t...

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