The Brotherhood of the Ad Blockers • Hacker News Board

Re: The Brotherhood of the Ad Blockers

#281

Post by shabble » Fri, May 11, 2018, 11:24 AM UTC

lapnitnelav wrote: post #255

darkkindness wrote: post #241

> Publishers will target Salmela’s software if it becomes anywhere near as popular as AdBlock Plus, says Nicole Perrin, an analyst at researcher EMarketer. I'd caution about that claim. Google pulled AdNauseam[0], a uBlock Origin extension, from the Chrome Web Store since it was fundamentally disrupting Google's business model via click fraud. (It automates clicking ads in order to create noise in user tracking.) Thi…

I disagree with you : 1) Unlike AdNauseam, Google can't do much to get in the way of Pi-Hole. This isn't within its ecosystem. 2) Actually, while it's not great for publishers, it's not that disruptive (at that scale) because it doesn't impact the advertiser's ad spend. No request > No charge. Now if you wanted to create something that would be quite disruptive, you'd need to combine the 2, with a twist : You could h…

> Unlike AdNauseam, Google can't do much to get in the way of Pi-Hole. This isn't within its ecosystem

Is there any reason they couldn't start ignoring system DNS resolvers for "key properties" in favour of using DNS over HTTPS to themselves "for your comfort and safety"? And use pinned keys for those DoH resolvers to stop you MitMing it.

You could maybe still transparently proxy things or firewall specific hosts, but that's a lot less straightforward and higher risk of collateral blockage.

Re: The Brotherhood of the Ad Blockers

#282

Post by fwn » Fri, May 11, 2018, 11:38 AM UTC

xenophonf wrote: post #33

vanadium wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Been running it myself for 5-6 months, and other than the occasional (actually, very rare) complaint from the Mrs. that a link she clicked won't go through due to a blocked tracker/analytics intermediary, it's been a peachy time VPNing into our home network so it works just as well on the go. Our install Pi-Hole points its upstream DNS to 1.1.1.1, with uBlock Origin where possible installed on our devices. Can't imag…

What advantage is there in using 1.1.1.1 instead of your own DNS resolver?

...also censorship. Even my German ISP (Vodafone) apparently reroutes some URLs to servers they control.

Solved it with DNS66.

Re: The Brotherhood of the Ad Blockers

#283

Post by blueseaadmin » Fri, May 11, 2018, 12:43 PM UTC

Would it not be possible to code either an add on or even a proxy server that "accepts" the ads, but sends them to /dev/null while serving up a "clean" rendering of a page? I'm sure this can be done.

Re: The Brotherhood of the Ad Blockers

#284

Post by sharcerer » Fri, May 11, 2018, 12:55 PM UTC

darkmighty wrote: post #87

darawk wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have the right to possess it, and I have the right to take it by force, because that's the way physical reality is implemented. Arguing that implementation implies natural rights is a pretty silly path.

In this case there is no contract. The websites are really giving their things away for free, only with the expectation , but no guarantee, that some users will see ads. The societally agreed upon principles, that constitute the law, place no responsibility on the receiver of free content (an easily justifiable principle in fact). They have all the right and power to refuse to give their content away for free. You ha…

Just some questions. Niw the purpose of all these questions are to get ur viewpoint on certain issues. Thanks. Do u encounter obnoxiousads 100% of the time? I mean Taboola ads sure, bad. Also, if you were running website or were any other content creator making money through ads, thrn would you want 100% of visitors to use adblockers? Also, do u think whole world should block ads, because reality is most people cannot pay for content. I mean how many subscriptions are you gonna buy, so that's why ads became the de facto way for earning revenue. Also, a slightly different question. Not sure how to frame this. The ad revenue has enabled Alphabet to do various stuff like Verily life sciences, project loon, self driving cars. Make products like Google Maps which power transportation and are indispensable ( i know about Openstreetmap). So, is that all justifiable? Also, do you regard Youtube ads as bad also? Also, many people say ads are annoying. Sure, i have also felt that way sometimes. But with Youtube most of the times, i get to know about a new product/movie etc. Personally, as a student I use youtube a lot, can't imagine life without it.

Re: The Brotherhood of the Ad Blockers

#285

Post by m3rc » Fri, May 11, 2018, 1:17 PM UTC

dredmorbius wrote: post #249

m3rc wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Even if you're on a browser that can't use adblock (mostly android) The fuck?

Android Chrome, specifically. It's maddening.

No, I was astounding that something so wrong was being peddled.

Re: The Brotherhood of the Ad Blockers

#286

Post by thejrk » Fri, May 11, 2018, 1:30 PM UTC

bxio wrote: post #40

Ever since I was given my first computer and was allowed on the internet, I've had NoScript and Adblock installed. I installed a Pi-hole last week, totally worth. Best amount of time and money I've spent so far this year.

Here it is! That comment that makes you feel old!

Re: The Brotherhood of the Ad Blockers

#287

Post by intrasight » Fri, May 11, 2018, 2:35 PM UTC

joshschreuder wrote: post #254

TheCapn wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I run pi-hole in conjunction with browser blockers and still find it a net benefit overall. Anyone who uses my wifi gets an adblocker, any device, for any browser, and any configuration gets the benefit of having it. It's not just myself, a technically literate person, but my mother, sister, girlfriend and friends... Ideally if it stops just one malicious ad from landing itself upon my home's network then I say the b…

Not just that but it also can block all sorts of telemetry for devices on your network beyond PCs. For example, mine blocks Samsung telemetry from my TV, so I can still use the TV apps without having my info sent to Samsung.

Interesting. I assume that it could do generate IoT telemetry blocking. That's reason enough to investigate moving forward. With smart appliances and IoT there is no opportunity to install stuff on the device.

The big hole in this model is for devices that have their own cellular radios.

Re: The Brotherhood of the Ad Blockers

#288

Post by IloveHN84 » Fri, May 11, 2018, 3:15 PM UTC

horsawlarway wrote: post #51

koolba wrote: post #39

> Only a few years ago, even people who hated ads saw ad-blocking software as akin to stealing. I've been using ad blockers and NoScript plugins for longer than I can remember. Before that I was using /etc/hosts file based blocking. I've never felt like I was stealing nor do I know anyone that feels that way. On the contrary, I've always felt that content to display, and in particular code to execute, on my device is…

Even worse, associating blocking ads as something akin to stealing is morally bankrupt. It's an incredibly slippery slope that leads to complete loss of autonomy for individuals. If I refuse to read roadside billboards, am I now stealing? If I tear up newspaper ads and throw them away, am I now stealing? If I turn off my tv during ads on a cable show, am I now stealing? I think any sane person would definitively say…

They made also the torrent and ed2k protocols look like stuff for pirated content, but at the end the protocols themselves are really valid and strong, maybe today they would have been better and have maybe prevented centralised information.

But no, they got a bad label and then every major ISP has blocked / tracked them since ever

Re: The Brotherhood of the Ad Blockers

#289

Post by dbuder » Fri, May 11, 2018, 4:14 PM UTC

no one sees ad blocking as akin to stealing except the kind of people who will agree to any and all malware from their advertising networks without even a cursory glance.

Re: The Brotherhood of the Ad Blockers

#290

Post by vkou » Fri, May 11, 2018, 4:44 PM UTC

mirimir wrote: post #203

vkou wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have looked for better business models as long as the internet was around. It always comes back to ads. As it turns out, nobody wants to pay for micro-transactions, and organizations with more then 1 employee can't survive off Patreon. So, you get labour of love bloggers, a handful of donation-funded individuals making youtube videos, and everyone else in an arms race to put as many frigging ads on their sites…

> As it turns out, nobody wants to pay for micro-transactions ... Ad-serving systems clearly involve micro-transactions. With payments as small as $.0001 or less. There's no reason why ad-blocking intermediaries couldn't participate. I suspect that you're referring to "micro-transactions" via PayPal or whatever, at $1 per article or more. It's not surprising that nobody wants to pay that much.

No, I'm referring to 'pay some intermediary $10/month, and they re-distribute it among websites you visit.'

As it turns out, most people would rather see ads... And the websites don't make enough money, unless the rates become unreasonable.