The reason a bunch of extremely wealthy people are huge proponents of UBI is because it is a way to create apathy in the general population. They hype up the great UBI enabled artist or entrepreneur trope while knowing full well the vast majority of UBI recipients will just buy more opioids and another pack of smokes. As the wealth gap continues to grow around the world, the UBI scenario is much more palatable to the ultra-wealthy than another French Revolution (nobody wants to end up as the Tech Titan equivalent of Louis and Marie).
The Great American Share – Sam Altman Interview on Basic Income
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Re: The Great American Share – Sam Altman Interview on Basic Income
#282Sam makes an interesting analogy with Y Combinator as providing a form of "basic income" to people trying to start startups. However, this analogy ignores a huge difference in the two cases: the people who are trying to start startups with Y Combinator's help are a highly self-selected group. Giving them "basic income" often turns out to be highly productive, yes. But that does not imply that giving basic income to e…
Also when a startup burns out their runway it dies and investors probably won't fund the same idea twice. What happens to the people who blow their UBI on drugs/gambling etc instead of healthcare and prosperity. Who will pay to re-fund them? (and fund them again?)
UBI would be a monthly (or perhaps weekly) payment, not a one time lump sum.
Re: The Great American Share – Sam Altman Interview on Basic Income
#283The UBI debate is fundamental to how we perceive society and what kind of society we want to build into the future. If one's idea of human society is people working to earn money. Fullstop. And those who are better at it are the be all and end alls of human civilization and progress and the ultimate aspiration. Then words like lazy, people will not do anything, arguments that are generic enough to block any action, a…
No it's even more basic then that. There are two competing theories for humanity. One is, do you have faith in society and the peoples of that society? The other, do you not have faith in society and the peoples of it? Many of the human-made constructs in our world were defined as a stop-gap for the lowest depths of humanity. Certain people are extremely selfish, narcissistic, care only for themselves? We have some l…
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Re: The Great American Share – Sam Altman Interview on Basic Income
#284The question I’m interested in: How do we unlock maximum human potential? Last I checked, welfare does the opposite of this. It helps people merely subsist, not strive for greatness. Then he goes on to compare YC to basic income. Seriously? They take a share in your company and help you develop it. That isn't money for nothing. If he weren't a millionaire and the current president of YC, would we keep seeing articles…
How does welfare possibly hold people back when they're required to look for a job on it?
Someone who risks homelessness may have more incentive to find a job, but they're also going to have more difficulties. It's easier to look for a job on a full stomach; it's easier to look for a job with a roof over your head; it's easier to look for a job with internet access; it's easier to look for a job when you're not constantly worried about losing it all. Welfare gives you a stable place from which to find employment.
If your argument is that people abuse the position of welfare, and don't look for a job, then that's a criticism of its enforcement, not welfare itself.
Re: The Great American Share – Sam Altman Interview on Basic Income
#285I don't think people should view UBI as "giving away free money".
Instead we should look at it from a geologist[1]/geolibertarian[2] perspective: as compensation for appropriation of land and natural resources that rightfully belong to everyone.
UBI should be funded by land and resource taxes, not from income, sales or corporate taxes.
Re: The Great American Share – Sam Altman Interview on Basic Income
#286Sentimentalizing about drinking tea around a candle resting on a table of nice wood is all fine and dandy, but let's put aside the images of upper middle class comforts and imagine your local butcher embedded in a family and a local community. He's providing a service people need and he's receiving money for his work which he uses to support his family and keep his business running. There is a network of interdepende…
Are you concerned that the butcher will stop butchering, because he doesn't like his job and would rather live frugally on just UBI without additional income from his job? And his partner would leave him, because the relationship was motivated only by financial dependence and also prefers a frugal UBI-only sustenance? After which progressives would cheer for both these developments and also because meat is unethical, and conservatives would have a case how it would destroy economy.
I don't know, I'm sure there would be some decrease in economic activity from life changes by people who hate their jobs and have reluctant relationships held together by financial dependencies. But these would be probably be more than compensated by the productive impacts on people's lives.
Re: The Great American Share – Sam Altman Interview on Basic Income
#287Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ok but your personal project could be a new video game that nets you millions. That’s the whole point of UBI.
"nets you millions" probably not if "tax the hell out of wealth" ... right?
No. What we fail to understand is that taxes are fair when they are proportional.
Re: The Great American Share – Sam Altman Interview on Basic Income
#288Sam makes an interesting analogy with Y Combinator as providing a form of "basic income" to people trying to start startups. However, this analogy ignores a huge difference in the two cases: the people who are trying to start startups with Y Combinator's help are a highly self-selected group. Giving them "basic income" often turns out to be highly productive, yes. But that does not imply that giving basic income to e…
"Sam makes an interesting analogy with Y Combinator as providing a form of "basic income" to people trying to start startups. " These two things aren't even close to the same thing. If Y Combinator accepted every single applicant, than yes, it would be equivalent to UBI. They obviously do not.
> These two things aren't even close to the same thing.
Tell that to Sam, not me. He made the analogy.
Re: The Great American Share – Sam Altman Interview on Basic Income
#289Earlier quoted context omitted.
Also when a startup burns out their runway it dies and investors probably won't fund the same idea twice. What happens to the people who blow their UBI on drugs/gambling etc instead of healthcare and prosperity. Who will pay to re-fund them? (and fund them again?)
My guess is that it would be handled the same as senior citizens who gamble or drink. Next month another check arrives, same as usual. But who worries about this, or would consider cutting social security due to drinking or gambling?
> who worries about this, or would consider cutting social security due to drinking or gambling?
We don't consider that because we maintain the polite assumption that people get paid from social security after they retire because they paid into it while they were working. There are plenty of cases where that's not true, but we allow ourselves to treat them as outliers, and assume that the money people get from social security is basically "their" money; the government just saved it for them.
UBI removes the option to think of things this way. I think a lot of UBI proponents have not fully considered the implications of that.
Re: The Great American Share – Sam Altman Interview on Basic Income
#290Earlier quoted context omitted.
Prior to Sam Altman re-envisioning YC as a form of UBI, Paul Graham talked a lot about the idea that the money they gave was insignificant. The real value was in connecting you with movers and shakers and educating you about business creation. Last I checked, UBI does not come with built in business education or introductions to movers and shakers. I was homeless for nearly six years and actively trying to make busin…
FWIW I have noticed your posts and your arguments are lucid. A well-worn path to higher income as a communications professional is corporate PR and media management. You could consider developing an offering here for startups, either a course or a book or (preferably) a business, since we now see so many PR hacks for startups type articles yet as an actual founder I can tell you I don't have time to manually research…
Great point. Or perhaps a PR firm. If you're near NYC, SF or Boston, my wife works at a firm she loves and I'd be glad to intro you (Doreen) to her.