Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

economist.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

281–290 of 606 posts

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#281

Post by Danihan »

turc1656 wrote: post #168
TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The younger crowd seems to be largely detached from the idea of responsibility that was drilled into previous generations. My father graduated college making $42k/yr. Inflation adjusted, that was about $60k/yr in today's dollars. I just graduated, have experience in the field, and am getting a salary of $35k/yr in today's dollars. Meanwhile, upper management is getting millions. In that kind of work environment, wh…

I'm not sure how someone can just graduate and yet have meaningful experience in the field. Seems like only a very, very select few people can every really say that. Also, it's not clear if you and your father have degrees in the same field. If you do, part of it could easily be a supply/demand issue. I've heard similar stories from lawyers who enter the field and find it very difficult to get anything above 50k for…

Waste of time spending this much effort on ppl w/ entitlement issues.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#282

Post by ced »

runeks wrote: post #266
adventured wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't just create 100,000 new construction workers in San Diego because you raise wages from $45 to $60 per hour. Labor availability + skill + time + market awareness = it takes a helluva lot longer than months or 2-3 years to meaningfully boost a skill trade. Labor availabity means: how many people - heavily influenced by the unemployment rate - are interested in putting in the time to go retrain themselves to d…

I believe the trick is the following: if wages increase from 45 to $60/hr, a lot of the planned constructions no longer make sense financially, and are abandoned.

Plus, people from other parts of the country (or... other countries) will jump on the gold rush.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#283

Post by teej »

runeks wrote: post #271
mac01021 wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it takes 3 years to become good at construction work, there can definitely be a 3+ year shortage in qualified construction workers.

Shortage at what price? There’s always a shortage of bread for people willing to pay 1 cent per loaf, and never a shortage for people willing to pay $10. One could argue that, while you think you’re experiencing a shortage, reality is that you’re simply not willing to pay enough.

There can be 10 people willing to spend $inf for a loaf of bread and only 5 loaves. Supply of skilled work isn't immediately elastic.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#284

Post by [deleted] »

enraged_camel wrote: post #129
monocasa wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone who smoked a joint a couple days ago can absolutely work with concrete cutters or 1k volt lines.

It's not about whether they can or can't. It's about the massive liability for the company if they fuck up on the job and cause property damage or bodily injury.

[deleted]

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#285

Post by opportune »

jondubois wrote: post #269
opportune wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always read these ridiculously high salaries and laugh. Your average HVAC worker is not making $400k. I do know people in construction/HVAC/plumbers/electricians and it's the bosses making that money, not the grunt workers. The people on the front lines still make good money, for some easily approaching $100k/year, so there's not really a need for embellishment. That isn't to say that it's unattainable, but it's ak…

$400k is what senior executives of major multinational companies get paid. It's also what top surgeons get paid. I highly doubt that blue collar workers get anywhere near that much. If they did, everyone would try to work in that industry because the barrier to entry is comparatively very low.

Senior executives get paid much more than that in stock (which is how these top-paid software people get most of their money too), also $400k is just a slightly above average surgeon, not a top surgeon.

If you read my comment, I'm not really talking about blue collar workers, but more people who used to be bluecollar workers but eventually became small business owners of companies employ blue collar labor. My cousins who used to be electricians can easily make $250k/year by employing a team of <10 electricians to do the manual work. $400k/year doesn't seem out of reach at all, and they might get that just by moving business to a higher CoL area than the suburban South

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#286

Post by ska »

jondubois wrote: post #269
opportune wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always read these ridiculously high salaries and laugh. Your average HVAC worker is not making $400k. I do know people in construction/HVAC/plumbers/electricians and it's the bosses making that money, not the grunt workers. The people on the front lines still make good money, for some easily approaching $100k/year, so there's not really a need for embellishment. That isn't to say that it's unattainable, but it's ak…

$400k is what senior executives of major multinational companies get paid. It's also what top surgeons get paid. I highly doubt that blue collar workers get anywhere near that much. If they did, everyone would try to work in that industry because the barrier to entry is comparatively very low.

   It's also what top surgeons get paid.
Your point is valid, but that is nowhere near the top of surgical salaries - closer to the average.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#287

Post by birdmanjeremy »

southphillyman wrote: post #189
ransom1538 wrote: post #108

>> "Anecdotaly, about 20% of new hires under 30 don’t understand the concept of showing up on time (or at all)" Don't kid yourself. Those new hires are at other jobs making more money. I am booked for a roofer in feb 2018 (fingers crossed - friend of a friend). Blue skills are in extremely high demand. And those guys are working extremely hard making really high incomes (400k+). These guys are highly paid and are not…

Where can one go to learn these "blue collar" skills? As a recent home owner I'm learning first hand how valuable these skills are by way of my wallet. Seems like most people I meet who do these kinds of jobs were "born into it", and learned by helping a family member who was already in the industry. Are there IIT type schools which teach these kinds of things on a part time basis?

Community college. It's cost effective and a great way to get your feet wet. I took a welding class at my local, and couldn't believe how cheap it was.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#288

Post by GFischer »

jaymzcampbell wrote: post #262
onion2k wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine there's an opportunity for a startup that let's someone who wants to do a simple job themselves Facetime with a plumber to talk them through the work. No idea if there's any profit in it though.

I worked at a startup doing exactly this last year[1], [2], [3]. Unfortunately, the parent company shut us down after we ran out of runway but it was starting to gain traction. One issue we had was ultimately a lot of people wanted someone to come out anyway and to make sure we had the right quality (and so gain customer/brand trust) we had to do this in-house - i.e. hire actual plumbers and handymen to be on call as…

Well, having someone over video sounds like it would have value :) (even though eventually you get a house visit), I'd love that service.

I have some exterior window blinds that need fixing, I'd love for someone to see it over a video call and get a quote before them coming.

That startup sounded great, I'm sad it failed :(

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#289

Post by opportune »

djb_hackernews wrote: post #274
jacobolus wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Staff Engineer” is about halfway up the technical career ladder in many places, with a few possible (but increasingly rare) levels above, and a few levels below. Someone promoted to staff engineer likely has at least 5 years of work experience (probably more) and is self-motivated, good at their job, gets along well with their coworkers, and has some technical vision. Many of these people might have some quasi-manag…

I've worked for 2 well known software companies and what you are describing is a Senior Engineer in both (5-10 years experience). The place I am now starts fresh grads as Engineer I, then Engineer II, Senior Engineer, Principal Engineer, Architect and then Staff Engineer. Each promotion takes about 4-5 years so you aren't reaching Staff until about 20 years. A Staff Engineer is basically fully autonomous and is an IC…

My experience aligns with yours

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#290

Post by eru »

SilasX wrote: post #252
tzs wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drug tests don't test for intoxication. They just test test for something that correlates somewhat with having been intoxicated sometime in the recent past. Better is to use impairment testing. An impairment test is a test of cognitive function, alertness, reaction time, hand-eye coordination and similar objective things that actually correlate well with how well you can do your job now , instead of sometime in the p…

That sounds like a much better idea; any reason this hasn't caught on as a replacement for drug testing? It opens up for a lot of good workers who'd otherwise be rejected, and it is more robust against the thing you actually care about preventing.

Probably because drug tests are not actually about that?
Post reply on HN