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Freelancer.com has ruined my life

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Re: Freelancer.com has ruined my life

#281
Posting from a new account since my old one identifies me by email address, and as you'll see below, Upwork has vindictive staff.

Upwork is better than Freelancer, at least on a UX level, Freelancer's site is a mess, I'll concede that. However, Upwork will arbitrarily lock your account and you will have no recourse, so don't put all your eggs in one basket.

Once, I asked Upwork technical support about an issue I had where they were showing the wrong hourly rate to clients (who asked me why I was changing my rate), and I asked Upwork whether it was possible to resolve, very politely. They told me no, that's just how it works, it won't be resolved. I was totally baffled, but what can you do? I would just continue to explain to clients the problem.

Upwork, after a support issue, gives you a little survey "did this resolve your problem / how satisfied are you" or whatever, so I put no, and unsatisfied, obviously.

Not 30 minutes later my account was locked, so I could not apply for new jobs, nor withdraw any money that already belonged to me. "It needs additional identity verification", despite having worked there for a long time, having 100% positive feedback, all jobs successful, my photograph on there, all forms of ID they initially required were provided, all payments successful, contracts ongoing, etc. I had to install some nonsensical app and have a webcam interview to prove I'm the guy in the photo, etc. It seems entirely too coincidental that I would give a support person a bad review and then be flagged immediately.

So, if Upwork asks you for a survey, beware, you are obligated to lie. I have been using Upwork since then, but at least now am aware of and prepared for it to be locked up or deleted at any time.

Upwork charges 10-20% of an enormous global tech labor market and there is no major competitor? Freelancer is garbage and I've heard horror stories about Toptal. I'm open to suggestions, and encouraging some enterprising reader to start a competitor; I'll use your site.

Re: Freelancer.com has ruined my life

#282
post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because I was too slow to implement a feature because I was spending extra time writing tests. This. Just yesterday, I was asked by an interviewer at a Startup. "How do you test your code? Do you write tests? What's your familiarity with TDD." My answer: "I prefer to do a test driven approach. However, none of the companies I worked for allocated time for writing tests in the sprint, so I have not been able to actu…

Maybe you can help me understand something because I hear this a lot. You manually debug and run your code through "the happy path and edge cases", if I'm understanding you correctly... so, does it really take that much longer to write an automated test that does the same thing? What I'm saying is if we accept the company's viewpoint as truth -- I don't -- then you'd just be writing code and handing it over. No testi…

Having automated tests written mean that future changes that break the existing code will cause the test to fail - that's the advantage.

Re: Freelancer.com has ruined my life

#283

I worked for Freelancer.com briefly as a software engineer at their HQ in Sydney for about 1 month (that was in the year before their IPO) - I was fresh out of university. The culture within the company was toxic. They treat developers like crap - Both those who use the platform and those who work at HQ. They fired me after 1 month during my probation because I was too slow to implement a feature because I was spendi…

I bet Martin Scorsese would love see this story to hit cinemas

Re: Freelancer.com has ruined my life

#284
post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you share more? Sounds interesting, especially as I'm reading your comment inside a Tesco store.

Not much, i'm afraid - i can't even remember who it was, it was a tale told in a pub, i think. They'd done some work for Tesco, sent an invoice, Tesco messed them around trying not to pay it, so they brought a case in court, Tesco didn't bother sending anyone to contest it, and this person got the winding-up order. When that is issued, official letters go to the directors, and apparently that got their attention.

I've twice been involved in sending winding-up orders, or at least sending a letter before action to say that a winding-up order comes next. They're an effective and cheap tool in the U.K. to shake dishonest companies looking to avoid/delay paying their bills.

Re: Freelancer.com has ruined my life

#285

I once had a disagreement with Freelancer over a few hundred dollars. I was a buyer, rather than a seller, the job didn't get done, and I was trying to withdraw the funds I put in. So, although in the US, I filed a small claims case in New South Wales. This can be done entirely on line. It's possible to request court hearings by telephone. So you can do a small claims case remotely. Within 8 hours after filing the ca…

Good job!

Re: Freelancer.com has ruined my life

#286

I worked for Freelancer.com briefly as a software engineer at their HQ in Sydney for about 1 month (that was in the year before their IPO) - I was fresh out of university. The culture within the company was toxic. They treat developers like crap - Both those who use the platform and those who work at HQ. They fired me after 1 month during my probation because I was too slow to implement a feature because I was spendi…

> because I was too slow to implement a feature because I was spending extra time writing tests. This. Just yesterday, I was asked by an interviewer at a Startup. "How do you test your code? Do you write tests? What's your familiarity with TDD." My answer: "I prefer to do a test driven approach. However, none of the companies I worked for allocated time for writing tests in the sprint, so I have not been able to actu…

As the saying goes, you don't have to test all your code, only the code that's supposed to work. I don't give estimates that exclude tests for the same reason I don't give estimates for pseudocode that nearly compiles.

Re: Freelancer.com has ruined my life

#287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For someone coming from Eastern Europe - not at all. > Yes, you will be outbid by competitors from cheaper countries, but hey, welcome to reality where half of the stuff you buy is produced in China, because you compete with people and companies from all around the world. That's what a race to the bottom looks like, if this trend keeps on going it won't be long before everybody has the income of somebody working in…

no, because India's revenue is growing, that's how you get developing countries out of the mud. Look how China developed since they became the world's factory.

Revenue is of no use when nobody is being paid living wages anymore. As good as China is doing, it still hasn't solved the basic issues and a growing middle class in China (and India) is only gonna worsen the situation.

I don't believe this planet can sustain billions of people living with the same standards/ways like Northern American or Western European people do, that's a pipe dream equal to "Everybody can be a millionaire".

Sure, everybody could be a millionaire, but at that point nobody wants to a millionaire anymore but rather a billionaire, the same applies to living standards.

Re: Freelancer.com has ruined my life

#288
post #276
post #195

Like most marketplaces, they are only interested in making themselves profitable. Always remember that. Working at freelancer.com or similar sites is saying: "I should spend a large portion of my life to become an expert in my craft, and then I should agree to have my privacy stripped away from me while I race to the bottom and undercut my competition because I will actively place myself into situations where I have…

Thanks for the guide! Btw, >As long as you have the technical skills to do the job, you can have your first client tomorrow. Heck, you don’t even need the technical skills, but that’s a story for another day. I'm curious, did you ever write that story?

No problem.

I have not written that story but it's kind of hidden in the original article.

The short version is to broaden your network and find dependable people who you can really trust.

At the end of the day someone needs to do the work and have technical skills. Basically you can outsource that to people in your network.

For example I'm not an illustrator guru or especially good at hardcore graphic design but I know enough to be dangerous. I typically have a friend in my network make logos for me and I pay him.

My direct client doesn't know this, because it's an unimportant implementation detail. All he knows is he gets a badass logo in the end and it comes part of a package I presented to him.

You can do this for almost anything. I like meetups for this because it's the fastest way to determine if someone is legit or not. I only want to surround myself with highly dependable people who I trust.

Re: Freelancer.com has ruined my life

#289
post #279
post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this is the type of stuff I'm talking about. But you can take these things so much further if you branch away from "just development skills" too. I never talked to a food truck person yet but I bet there's lots of ways you could have turned that unfulfilling contract into something more interesting. No business owner really cares about a site redesign. They just care about "how do I get more customers?". If you…

I get what you're saying, but it's also clear that you haven't ever talked to a food truck person. They're not paying you $1000 for a wordpress site, and they're never paying $1000 on retainer. The rest is also a total fantasy. This is a misleading example because restaurants and food already operate on razor-thin margins; restaurant software is legendarily hard to break into and make money in. Source: tried to start…

I hope it's clear I haven't talked to a food truck person because I lead off my reply literally saying I haven't heh. I used that as an example because the parent comment was talking about a food truck site he made for someone.

I can't force you into believing anything and that's fine but I don't think I need to defend myself here.

I have no agenda. I'm only bothering to share this stuff (along with the 100+ other posts on my blog) because I don't want to see other software developers go through the same mistakes I encountered along the way when freelancing for the last 20 years. I've been burned by marketplaces in the past.

Btw, what I described works (and has worked for me personally) with any of the niches I listed in my original comment and many more. No, I haven't created a super successful SAAS business from any of them but my idea wall has a dozen that could be made and would likely have some degree of success.

The problem is, I'd rather spend my limited time on creating software developer courses and building that up because unless you're passionate about what you do, you're very likely going to go no where in the long term and I'm not passionate about making SAAS apps related to industries I'm not personally involved with on a daily basis.

Re: Freelancer.com has ruined my life

#290

What this story and the comments here tell me is that the market for a developer focused contract bid site is ripe for competition. There are only a few well known branded marketplaces in the industry, and they all seem to be quite poor in the eyes of skilled developers. Maybe there is a continuous decline towards the bottom after a marketplace becomes a certain size, but I wish that there were more options to find c…

I’m a designer and clients always ask me if I can recommend a developer. I can’t seem to network with any good developers who I can honestly recommend to my clients. I even started a freelance slack group in hopes of broadening my network but that hasn’t really done much.

What are your details? As a developer I’d like to know more designers I can refer to!
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