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Firefox Focus – A new private browser for iOS and Android

blog.mozilla.org

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Re: Firefox Focus – A new private browser for iOS and Android

#281

Post by st3fan »

kuschku wrote: post #280
st3fan wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Focus does not use Google Analytics. I dont understand how people came to that conclusion. Focus does not talk to any Google services at all. There is no Google Analytics in Focus. Check the source code please to verify this.

Focus uses Adjust, Adjust uses com.google.android.gms:play-services-analytics. Ergo, Focus uses com.google.android.gms:play-services-analytics. Ergo, Focus talks to certain Google Services. If you recursively import a proprietary binary, it still ends up in the resulting apk. I’ve checked the APK, the Google Analytics libary ends up in it, and it is not in any way sandboxed from the rest of the browser.

It may end up in the APK but that does not mean it is actually used. This is the unfortunate side effect of pulling in dependencies with dependencies.

I can assure you that Adjust does not talk to google analytics behind our backs. It may have that option, but we did not configure it to use that functionality. What would it talk to, we did not configure an API key.

I will find out if we can remove this dependency to avoid confusion.

Filed https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/focus-android/issues/1174

(And for completeness, Adjust source code at https://github.com/adjust/android_sdk)

Re: Firefox Focus – A new private browser for iOS and Android

#282

Post by moosingin3space »

ams6110 wrote: post #178
shurcooL wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For example, if you need to jump on the internet to look up Muddy Waters’ real name, and instead of “McKinley Morganfield” you get pop-up ads, screen takeovers, “sponsored” content and other third-party advertising- driven distraction, then you know what browser overkill feels like. What? I don't understand how that's possible. If you just google search for Muddy Waters, it tells you his real name right on the search…

> Am I missing something I think you're taking the example a bit too literally. You know exactly what they're talking about. It's become almost impossible to use a phone browser for anything quick. They are slow to begin with, and with all the ads and other crap it's just not even worth it half the time.

I once read that for this reason, many people send screenshots instead of links - so others don't have to reproduce the right sequence of closing ads, etc to show the content the user is interested in sharing.

Re: Firefox Focus – A new private browser for iOS and Android

#283

Post by st3fan »

kuschku wrote: post #278
st3fan wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mozilla does not give data to Google. Why do you think that? Can you be more concrete?

You include an untrusted, proprietary binary from Google. Not directly, but as a recursive dependency: com.google.android.gms:play-services-analytics So, yes, you give data to Google. The Google analytics dependency you include could literally be malware, and you could not test, or know. And you never know if it doesn’t just decide to steal your data and transmit it all, be it by Google’s decision or because an NSL w…

Because that library is there does not mean that we are giving data to Google. It does not even mean that it is active or that it is sending anything.

This is a very strange conclusion that you present. I feel you are just twisting and turning to come to an unfavourable outcome here.

Even Google has decent data collection policies. They will not randomly make an application collect data without the developer opting in. We did not opt in. We are not including any sort of google analytics api key to enable anything.

In any case I have filed https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/focus-android/issues/1174

Re: Firefox Focus – A new private browser for iOS and Android

#284

Post by st3fan »

kuschku wrote: post #278
st3fan wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mozilla does not give data to Google. Why do you think that? Can you be more concrete?

You include an untrusted, proprietary binary from Google. Not directly, but as a recursive dependency: com.google.android.gms:play-services-analytics So, yes, you give data to Google. The Google analytics dependency you include could literally be malware, and you could not test, or know. And you never know if it doesn’t just decide to steal your data and transmit it all, be it by Google’s decision or because an NSL w…

> So, yes, you give data to Google.

I'd like to see some actual evidence that we can act upon rather than a strong unsubstantiated opinion. If we really leak anything than I will stand corrected and the team will fix that promptly.

Re: Firefox Focus – A new private browser for iOS and Android

#285

Post by apeace »

rcthompson wrote: post #20

This is useful to use as your default browser. It has a quick way to open the same link in another browser, so you can use it as a sort of quarantine to vet unknown links before exposing your main browser and all its juicy user data to a new website.

If only it were possible to set a default browser on iOS.

Re: Firefox Focus – A new private browser for iOS and Android

#286

Post by lucideer »

chairmanwow wrote: post #185
lucideer wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure from your comment whether you're just being pedantic in pointing out that while regrettable this isn't surprising (in which case your comment is not very constructive), or whether you actually think it's OK for Firefox to do this. Since you've used the term "anonymised" quite pointedly, I'm guessing the latter. I do find it surprising that anyone would assume data Google is collecting on your usage is so…

More along the lines of: I now fully expect the cost of entrance for free applications to be data the developers collect of my usage. It's naive to assume otherwise. EDIT: grammar

That's the case for some, but (1) most applications that lean that way are likely to be closed source as there is a certain sense of apparent moral high ground that comes with open sourcing and (2) more importantly Mozilla sells themselves on respecting privacy, first and foremost.

Re: Firefox Focus – A new private browser for iOS and Android

#288

Post by yakult »

mozoldie wrote: post #279
TekMol wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This stuff is used for deciding what features to prioritise This is exactly what every company tells you why they collect data. "To serve you better ...". The hypocrisy to advertise "tracking protection" as a key feature and then send tracking data to your own servers is hillarious.

Hypothetical example... but what nefarious things can one do knowing that some anonymous user happens to e.g. refresh pages a lot (or even, how can that data be sold)? OTOH it does let the developers know whether removing the refresh button would affect a lot of users. Or whether moving it elsewhere is sensible (e.g. to the toolbar if used a lot, or into a deeper menu if rarely used). Sure, this example is contrived.…

>what nefarious things can one do knowing that some anonymous user happens to e.g. refresh pages a lot (or even, how can that data be sold)?

Page refresh pattern data would go a long way in deanonymizing the user panopticlick style.

Re: Firefox Focus – A new private browser for iOS and Android

#289

Post by TekMol »

mozoldie wrote: post #279
TekMol wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This stuff is used for deciding what features to prioritise This is exactly what every company tells you why they collect data. "To serve you better ...". The hypocrisy to advertise "tracking protection" as a key feature and then send tracking data to your own servers is hillarious.

Hypothetical example... but what nefarious things can one do knowing that some anonymous user happens to e.g. refresh pages a lot (or even, how can that data be sold)? OTOH it does let the developers know whether removing the refresh button would affect a lot of users. Or whether moving it elsewhere is sensible (e.g. to the toolbar if used a lot, or into a deeper menu if rarely used). Sure, this example is contrived.…

> some anonymous user happens to e.g. refresh pages a lot

This makes me shudder. I don't want tcp/ip packets flowing from my computer to yours, telling you how often I refresh.

Re: Firefox Focus – A new private browser for iOS and Android

#290

Post by [deleted] »

Manishearth wrote: post #276
TekMol wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This stuff is used for deciding what features to prioritise This is exactly what every company tells you why they collect data. "To serve you better ...". The hypocrisy to advertise "tracking protection" as a key feature and then send tracking data to your own servers is hillarious.

Firefox is very judicious about collecting data. https://wiki.mozilla.org/Telemetry/FAQ It collects things like "how slow is rendering" or "do you use feature X?". It's all anonymized, and you can verify this from the source (you can also turn it off). Folks are very careful if adding new telemetry metrics. This isn't trackable data.

[deleted]
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