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Why I’m Learning Perl 6

evanmiller.org

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Re: Why I’m Learning Perl 6

#281

Post by tripa »

b2gills wrote: post #244
chriswarbo wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference between Python minor versions (e.g. 3.4 to 3.6) is tiny compared to the difference between Perl 5 and 6. From what I've seen, the difference between Python 2.x and 3.x is tiny compared to the Perl 5/6 change.

I think the difference between Perl 5.10 (2007) and 5.26 (2017) is bigger than difference between the Python 2 of 2007, and Python 3 of 2017 The difference between Perl 5 and Perl 6 is probably about 10x the difference between Perl 5.10 and 5.26 I like to explain it this way: Perl 4 is to C as Perl 5 is to C++ as Perl 6 is to Haskell/Smalltalk/C#/Swift/Julia…

Then again I've got Perl code I wrote in the 90s that still runs untouched on the latest Perl 5. Much more recent Python 2 code (of mine) still won't run untouched under Python 3.

So I might agree actually on the "bigger", but the "noticeability" does have a lot to do with the general feeling.

(to be clear, I agree with all of your comment)

Re: Why I’m Learning Perl 6

#283

Post by kazinator »

All I think about when I hear M:N thread multiplexing is "1992 is calling to have its stupid threads hacks back".

M:N is what you do when you don't have real kernel thread support. You hacked N user space threads per process (N:1) but then 1990 rolled in and cheap SMP with M processors started to spread across the land, so you needed N:M to take a bit of advantage of that.

Re: Why I’m Learning Perl 6

#284

Post by daotoad »

dmytrish wrote: post #162
pvdebbe wrote: post #36

I like writing bash scripts a lot and perl is a natural step-up with powerful libraries to use. As others have said, the major obstacle for me has been the lack of great literature.

For small tasks I enjoy aesthetics of small dedicated Unix tools (grep, sed, awk, cut, sort) working together much more. Perl tries to be everything at once, still mysteriously lacking interactive REPL out of the box. Yes, Python is more heavyweight for scripting, but it pays in the long term with better maintenance and tooling for big scripts.

So do you like small tools or having everything built in (like a REPL)?

It sounds like you are justifying an emotional attachment rather than making consistent arguments.

Now, there is nothing wrong with having an emotional attachment to a language or other tool, as long as you know it for what it is.

Python is a great language and has some really nice features, it's C extension system is miles better than Perl 5's horrible mess called XS. But to me, using it feels like wearing my shoes on the wrong feet, I really prefer Perl 5.

From my experience and from listening to colleagues, Python has one edge on Perl 5. Perl 5 and Python have very similar tooling abilities. Long term maintenance of large systems is pretty much the same. Python has the edge in ability to find and hire qualified people because the community has done a better job articulating Python's strengths and recruiting new people.

Re: Why I’m Learning Perl 6

#285

Post by Tloewald »

weberc2 wrote: post #99
StevePerkins wrote: post #22

> Concurrency is hard and if you want M:N thread multiplexing (i.e. WEB SCALE CODE, where application threads aren’t pinned to pthreads) your options today are precisely Erlang, Go, .NET, and Perl 6. Putting aside the "web scale" jokes ( http://www.mongodb-is-web-scale.com/ ), this statement is still absurd. Every major language, or at least the ones that matter for backend development, has support for thread multipl…

This is incorrect. Coroutines and fibers are not m:n threads. There are important implementation and usability distinctions. Besides, there are a lot of additional usability issues with bolted-on concurrency vs language-level concurrency.

Ah yes, let's use Perl 6 to avoid usability issues.

Re: Why I’m Learning Perl 6

#286

Post by daotoad »

dmytrish wrote: post #166
ue_ wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody's using P6 for legacy code.

Does anybody use P6 for any serious code?

It's still pretty new, so the library infrastructure sucks (but getting better every day).

I'm only peripherally involved in the community, but at this point, it seems people are using it primarily for small utilities and such.

Re: Why I’m Learning Perl 6

#287

Post by [deleted] »

StevePerkins wrote: post #22

> Concurrency is hard and if you want M:N thread multiplexing (i.e. WEB SCALE CODE, where application threads aren’t pinned to pthreads) your options today are precisely Erlang, Go, .NET, and Perl 6. Putting aside the "web scale" jokes ( http://www.mongodb-is-web-scale.com/ ), this statement is still absurd. Every major language, or at least the ones that matter for backend development, has support for thread multipl…

[deleted]

Re: Why I’m Learning Perl 6

#288

Post by mst »

krylon wrote: post #210
bigleagueposter wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

JVM is now becoming what Parrot was intended to be with Graal/Truffle.

I guess so. But without Perl 5 and Perl 6 it is just not going to be the same. (Pouty face)

Step 1. Fix Rakudo on the JVM

Step 2. Fix the perl5-in-perl6 work

Step 3. Retreat to a corner and sob until you recover some SAN points

Re: Why I’m Learning Perl 6

#289

Post by daotoad »

Paul_S wrote: post #255

This would've been so much easier if they just called Perl 6 something else. Would've saved them so much aggravation.

You aren't alone in thinking that.

http://blogs.perl.org/users/zoffix_znet/2017/07/the-hot-new-...

https://github.com/perl6/marketing/blob/master/TablePosters/...

Re: Why I’m Learning Perl 6

#290

Post by vram22 »

riffraff wrote: post #192
dmytrish wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the language itself a good place for parsing/grammar handling? I could not even find in the standard documentation which kind of parsers it supports, is it LR(k)? LL(k)? Any CFG? What parsing method does it use: recursive descent, shift-reduce, something more general like CYK/Earley algorithms? How does it handle ambiguities? It turns out that `grammar` keyword generates recursive descent parsers and anything even…

perl6 grammars have to be seen in context of perl5 regexp. Basically, regular expressions have grown to impossible to understand, write and modify. Mostly due to perl. Yet, they are used daily by millions of developers, because they are a ton better than manual character checks. Perl6 grammars are basically an attempt to bring developers another step forward.

Are you saying that Perl6 grammars are a replacement (maybe eventually) for Perl5 regexps?
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