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I'm a creep. I'm sorry

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Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#281

Post by [deleted] »

chasing wrote: post #99
dbg31415 wrote: post #57

A HUGE percentage of couples meet through work. It's not inherently wrong, or something inherently taboo. (We've all been told not to stick our pens in the company ink, but... time and time again we also see examples of happily married couples who met on the job... Bill Gates' wife worked for Microsoft, The Obamas met while they were working together, Ryan Reynolds & Blake Lively met on the set of Green Lantern...) S…

I, uh, can't believe that otherwise smart people can't understand the difference between building a romantic relationship and sexual harassment.

[deleted]

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#282

Post by noobermin »

woofyman wrote: post #279
alexandercrohde wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think dating coworkers is wrong. I think making somebody uncomfortable with clumsy/forceful/persistent advances can be bad though. But let's say you like somebody at work, so you talk to them, and you both enjoy the conversation. Then you eat lunch together at work a few times. Then you invite them to get drinks after work as a group. Then you continue to hang out when the rest of the group has gone home. The…

The problem with dating a coworker is that when they break up with you, you have to see them everyday.

That is more a life and operational issue, not a legal/abuse/harassment issue, to be fair.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#283

Post by julianmarq »

dbg31415 wrote: post #129
ceejayoz wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If he was overt, or repetitive, or really sleazy... yeah sure, I'm not on his side. The apology explicitly states "I made advances towards multiple women in work-related situations, where it was clearly inappropriate."

I'd be more worried if he made multiple advances to the same woman after being shot down multiple times by that woman. That's harassment. He's just... well... he seems like a really lonely guy.

You might have had a point in your first comment, now you're just defending a guy who won't even defend himself, for some reason.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#284

Post by lapsock »

Dear lord. 250 comments in 3 hours about GOSSIP.

Are you people even adults? Did someone hurt your fee-fees by hitting on you? how about acting like an ADULT?

Looking at his pictures now I can see why this happened. He should try going to the gym and whitening his teeth.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#285

Post by atlih »

noobermin wrote: post #275
atlih wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not at all, until they express interest in you.

This is very down in the weeds, but let me provide an example. >I'm going to place you under arrest, but if you give me your number, I might forget about it. The power dynamic there favors the officer over you. If you don't yield to him/er, you could face prison. That demonstrates the issue with power dynamic leading to sexual harassment is that one with more power over the other coerces them into yielding sexual fav…

Yes I understand that, but the power dynamic completely shifts when the powerful party shows interest. You might get yourself out of handcuffs by giving your or even a fake number if the powerful party is interested.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#286

Post by nindalf »

spamizbad wrote: post #156
hendzen wrote: post #142

Caveat, McClure's behavior was bad. But seeing recent public floggings for misbehavior I now wonder if people are feeling a bit hypersensitive/cautious about any workplace conduct that could potentially be perceived as harassment. Case in point. You work at a technology company. You are attracted to another coworker, who is NOT your subordinate. Is there some manner in which it is acceptable to express your interest?…

I think asking coworkers out is a huge no-no. If the only people in your orbit you feel you can connect with that way are at work, that's a sign your personal life needs some development. However, let's say you have a robust personal life, and you just have this absolutely amazing co-worker, who totally is not your subordinate, and ideally you don't even work directly with, and you want to ask them out... again.. I d…

It's not as black and white as you try and portray it. Sure, if the other person says "sorry, I'm busy", that's a definite no. But what if they say is "sorry I'm busy, perhaps some other time"? Are they actually busy and do they actually mean that? Or is it a polite rejection?

At this point, you need to figure out based on body language which one they mean. If you guess wrong and ask again, you're a sexual harasser. If the original conversation was over text and you have no body language other than emojis you're more likely to guess wrong. Nice going, sexual harasser.

And I think it's safe to say that many women will refuse to even consider asking a man out. It's entirely on the guy to initiate everything. Now put yourself in the shoes of someone who spends most of their time at work. In this thread I've seen jibes about how such people should get a life, but let's admit for a second that that's not easy. Such people have a choice - ask out a coworker or remain alone for a long while. In a situation like that, I can understand how they'd be strongly inclined towards interpreting "some other time" as an opportunity rather than a rejection.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#287

Post by politician »

theWatcher37 wrote: post #141
daenz wrote: post #24

Is it just me, or is committing public seppuku like this really necessary? If what he did was illegal, he should face prosecution. If he's compelled to apologize and admit his guilt, he should reach out to the people he actually wronged. This kind of public self-flagellation ("I'm such a creep. Please forgive me, world.") feels really over the top, phony, and symbolic.

Counterpoint: bowing to the collective social shaming buys the individual no "points", as is evidenced by this tread full of vultures questioning his motives. Instead we've created a culture where the only logical move is to deny deny deny even in the face of overwhelming evidence because the only thing the modern left hates more than "creep" is a loser.

An interesting game theory observation.

Moving past the judgements regarding the sincerity of his apology, it'd be interesting to learn the various constiuences' ideas of acceptable outcomes at this point.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#288

Post by DrScump »

noobermin wrote: post #275
atlih wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not at all, until they express interest in you.

This is very down in the weeds, but let me provide an example. >I'm going to place you under arrest, but if you give me your number, I might forget about it. The power dynamic there favors the officer over you. If you don't yield to him/er, you could face prison. That demonstrates the issue with power dynamic leading to sexual harassment is that one with more power over the other coerces them into yielding sexual fav…

For an expanded real-life demonstration of this scenario, read up on the Oakland Police interactions with the woman who called herself "Celeste Guap".

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#289

Post by noobermin »

JadeNB wrote: post #154
tanderson92 wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> when is an appropriate time for a college professor (that works long hours!) to ask a student out on a date? A student generally or one of his students? There is a difference. And not too long ago a professor dating a student that he/she didn't have power over was not that uncommon.

> And not too long ago a professor dating a student that he/she didn't have power over was not that uncommon. There are a lot of things that are not uncommon, but are still totally inappropriate.

Wait a second, if there is no power inbalance, how is it inappropriate? Are we merely arguing about social mores without any reason?

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#290

Post by mrmondo »

nv-vn wrote: post #257
spamizbad wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a humanist, I disagree. This is my reasoning: Unless the feelings are mutual, asking someone out at work can have negative consequences for the person you're asking, even if your intentions were good. You can't control their feelings, but you can control your actions. Also, believe it or not, your romantic options far outstrip your employment options. Asking people out at work just seems easier but it's quite comp…

>Unless the feelings are mutual That's the whole point of asking someone out -- to find out whether the feelings are mutual.

Yes, that's part of my point - that's why it's called /asking/, a world where people are not free to ask - I can only imagine would result in a world where people take, and that - I think we've all whitnessed at times.
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