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Get started making music

learningmusic.ableton.com

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Re: Get started making music

#281

Post by Johnny_Brahms »

BookmarkSaver wrote: post #258
dahart wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I always wondered why musicians keep up with the conventional musical notation system, and haven't come up with something better (maybe a job for a HNer?). You're not alone, this is a common reaction to music notation by engineers; a lot of people have wondered the same thing, even here on HN. For example https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12528144 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12085844 I see some great re…

>I see some great responses, but I wanted to add that you have to keep in mind that tons of people have actually tried to make a better system, and nobody has succeeded. That should give you enough pause to ask why and consider the possibility that the system we have is really good in a way that you haven't recognized yet. I think that this is the incorrect way of looking at it. I suspect it is less that the traditio…

The current system is 800 years old, and over that time it has won over hundreds of different systems. A new system is proposed every now and then, and even though they might be better in a specific problem domain (say, microtonal music), but they always fall apart.

I have thought a lot about the problem (worked as a professional bassoon player for a very long time), and I can't say I have had many good ideas. There are some ideas for simplified music notation (with different shapes for flats and sharps) which work _very_ well for making sight reading easier. Until it doesn't: It can't express enharmonics (different ways of writing the same note), which makes tonality analysis harder, and can actually hamper readability since most people that are fluent in reading music usually "stay in key" when reading music.

A quick google gave me this: http://musicnotation.org/ and I can't say I am very impressed by anything I see there. But as you notice, most systems are oriented by lines. I don't think that is because people lack fantasy, but because it is a pretty good way to write music.

Re: Get started making music

#282

Post by jdietrich »

dri_ft wrote: post #67
adamnemecek wrote: post #54

I'm actually working full time on a new DAW that should make writing music a lot faster and easier. Current DAWs don't really understand music. Also the note input process and experimentation is extremely time consuming and the DAW never helps. Current DAW : my thing = Windows Notepad : IDE. The HN audience is definitely one of my core groups. If you are interested, sign up here https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1-aQzV…

I think my idea of a perfect music program is closer to vim than an IDE, but you're on the right track.

IMO, classical notation is the Vim of music - it looks bizarre to outsiders, it's totally unintuitive, it requires a lot of memorisation and practice to use effectively, but it's extraordinarily efficient in the hands of an expert user.

Re: Get started making music

#283

Post by Jach »

dahart wrote: post #254
tannhaeuser wrote: post #200

I always wondered why musicians keep up with the conventional musical notation system, and haven't come up with something better (maybe a job for a HNer?). I mean the conventional music notation represents tones in five lines, each capable of holding a "note" (is that the right word?) on a line, as well as in between lines, possibly pitched down and up, resp., by B's and sharps (depending on the tune etc.). Since wes…

> I always wondered why musicians keep up with the conventional musical notation system, and haven't come up with something better (maybe a job for a HNer?). You're not alone, this is a common reaction to music notation by engineers; a lot of people have wondered the same thing, even here on HN. For example https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12528144 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12085844 I see some great re…

Maybe no one has succeeded with a general replacement, but there are different notations for guitar. I assume some other instruments have their own notation too. When electric music kicked off, to reproduce sound you have to trade setups / circuit diagrams, old music notation can't encode that! I kind of think of it like x86 assembly. It's here to stay, for better or worse, but that doesn't mean you can't have nicer things on top, and there are still things that don't make any sense at all in the x86 world (like FPGAs for one).

Re: Get started making music

#284

Post by catshirt »

bbreier wrote: post #64

Myself and two friends have tried to make music production easier (and more robust) on the phone in our spare time, and came up with our iPhone app, Tize ( https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/tize-make-music-beats-easy/i... ), to that end. If it sounds like something you're interested in please give it a go! We're always working to improve it and open to feedback. (Android is coming soon)

seems like a blatant clone of iMaschine?

Re: Get started making music

#285

Post by andyjsong »

flycaliguy wrote: post #269
2845197541 wrote: post #235

This seems like the wrong place to start. This seems like the place to start learning a DAW and snapping together samples—to, IMO, make depersonalized unoriginal loop music in a society awash with it because DAW's and looping have created an angel's path to production and proliferation. Learn to drag and drop and you can tell people you meet that you're a musician or a producer. I've met too many mediocre people like…

Maybe you haven't developed an ear to distinguish between the good and bad? Walk down my college town bar scene and it's awash with dudes who have poured years into an acoustic and it all sounds the same to me... except my buddy Dave (who has the same feelings toward beats as you BTW and honestly I think it's because his guitar is a social crutch...) Personally I've found DAW style copy and pasting, along with a skel…

You're a musician, you're just not classically trained in traditional instruments.

It's the same as a modern photographer who doesn't know how develop film, does it make you less of a artist because your photos were developed on a LCD screen. If anything, it frees you from spending time in a darkroom and instead have more time shooting photos.

Re: Get started making music

#286

Post by alxdistill »

Like any technology there can be lots of different inputs and outputs. I think it is safe to say that Roland and the TR808, 909, 303 changed music notation, and music forever, with their popularization of grid based music programming. It may be that Ableton is doing the same with their software. Each year the tools get better to do these sorts of creative activities. The Beatles recorded Abbey Road on a giant 4 track expensive four track owned by a record label. In 1995 I saved up my money from a summer job and bought a 4-track cassette recorder for about $500. Now you can get a four track app for you mobile phone for about $5. Or download an open source one for free.

YAY :)

Re: Get started making music

#287

Post by uranian »

mbrookes wrote: post #261
BookmarkSaver wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I see some great responses, but I wanted to add that you have to keep in mind that tons of people have actually tried to make a better system, and nobody has succeeded. That should give you enough pause to ask why and consider the possibility that the system we have is really good in a way that you haven't recognized yet. I think that this is the incorrect way of looking at it. I suspect it is less that the traditio…

Music notation is to music as qwerty is to keyboards?

No, qwerty for keyboards is more like the lay out of the 12 notes on an instrument, and there are many instruments.

Music notation is more like a programming language. The score is like a program that you can read/interpret and play.

Re: Get started making music

#288

Post by derefr »

BookmarkSaver wrote: post #258
dahart wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I always wondered why musicians keep up with the conventional musical notation system, and haven't come up with something better (maybe a job for a HNer?). You're not alone, this is a common reaction to music notation by engineers; a lot of people have wondered the same thing, even here on HN. For example https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12528144 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12085844 I see some great re…

>I see some great responses, but I wanted to add that you have to keep in mind that tons of people have actually tried to make a better system, and nobody has succeeded. That should give you enough pause to ask why and consider the possibility that the system we have is really good in a way that you haven't recognized yet. I think that this is the incorrect way of looking at it. I suspect it is less that the traditio…

Musicians frequently get taught music in large batches at schools, though, which means you don't have to worry about network effects—there are choke-points in the network.

There's no reason a given school couldn't teach a "colloquial notation" first, with the "Lingua Franca" musical notation taught later on, for everyone in that given school. Then everyone who comes from that school would know that colloquial notation.

Consider: the "Chicago school" of Economics; "Rugby School" football; etc. These things start as colloquialisms, then spread to global awareness.

Re: Get started making music

#289

Post by soundwave106 »

almonj wrote: post #169
hasbroslasher wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right that it's a staggering amount of arcane knowledge. But starting out I always recommend experimentation over getting too deep into the theory. It does help to have some baseline understanding of: 1. Frequency 2. Harmonics 3. Oscillators/Waveforms 4. Envelopes 5. Filters The only problem with the last part of your request is that even if you are to watch people design sounds for a couple of hours you might…

Also people who have really hot Sound Tips generally don't want to give them away. If you can make a unique sound with some special trick you will have an advantage over your enemies (other musicians).

One problem is that every machine tends to be designed just a little bit differently. Therefore, tips on exactly recreating the sound might not necessarily translate well from one machine to another.

For instance, the "Blade Runner Blues" patch as I understand it is actually one of the brass presets on the Yamaha CS-80. (Bad recording but here: https://www.firsthomebank.com/personal-banking/deposit-produ...) The CS-80 has a pretty unique architecture for a polyphonic analog. (http://www.cs80.com/tour.html) To get a patch exactly right would require replicating layout, filter architecture and structure, etc.

Knowing basics synthesis, however, can get you pretty close. I have a patch on my Alesis Andromeda (which has some CS-80 type elements such as a ribbon controller, dual resonant filters, and an unfiltered sine that goes to the post-filter mix) that someone did in a user community -- it came out decently good. I was able to Google a book page that gives a good overview of recreating it on other synths. (https://books.google.com/books?id=Jz1JMnZNO88C&pg=PA74&lpg=P...)

Now, to really get the Vangelis Blade Runner type effect, you have to be able to play a synthesizer expressively. This is unfortunately is tougher on most synths compared to the CS-80, due to the CS-80's polyphonic aftertouch that most synths lack. That being said, there are other techniques people could do. I understand that Vangelis used pedals to manipulate filter and volume, and that is something that can be done on many synths that I don't see a lot of people taking advantage of. Don't discount playing technique when it comes to the art of sound design, in other words.

Re: Get started making music

#290

Post by krosaen »

puranjay wrote: post #211

I'm an amateur musician and one of the things I hate about electronic music is how "distant" it all feels. I'm used to picking up the guitar, playing a few chords and writing a melody. Ableton (or any other DAW) feels like a chore. I have to boot up the computer, connect the MIDI keyboard, the audio interface and the headphones, then wait for Ableton to load, then create a new track and add a MIDI instrument before I…

Maybe the OP-1 would be of interest to you?

https://www.teenageengineering.com/products/op-1

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