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Update on HTML5 Video for Netflix

techblog.netflix.com

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Re: Update on HTML5 Video for Netflix

#281

Post by danso »

tptacek wrote: post #263
matt4077 wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Browser makers have plenty leverage. A Firefox user watching Netflix will, and this is a tautology, be worse off if they cannot continue doing so. That may lead to people switching to other browsers more often than dropping Netflix subscriptions, but the costs for Netflix wouldn't be 0, and may even be substantial considering the population of people using Firefox is self-selected to those placing a high value on ope…

Not only is it not true that Netflix would cave if they didn't have native browser support, but we know it's not true, because Netflix for years relied on plugins to deliver over browsers. Meanwhile, every year that passes, browsers have less leverage as more Netflix subscribers get their content either on set-top boxes or mobile devices (where Netflix has total end-to-end control), and fewer are stuck with browsers.

Have to say that this mirrors my experience. Netflix as an app is ubiquitous -- it's on virtually every electronic device I have, from smart TV to Chromecast to phone to tablet to Wii U and PS4. I believe I have Flash specifically updated and enabled for Netflix (or one of the video services, HBO maybe?). If Netflix required a specialized Mac OS X, I probably would install it. I imagine browsers have less leverage when it comes to the average non-technically inclined user.

Re: Update on HTML5 Video for Netflix

#282

Post by bubblethink »

mintplant wrote: post #184
apostacy wrote: post #127

This is the strategy Microsoft tried over a decade ago with ActiveX. And Firefox saved us. It was starting to be normalized, to have to install ActiveX controls to view certain content. Companies like CinemaNow[1] offered Netflix-like streaming movie services using Microsoft's ActiveX based Janus DRM over a decade ago. Thankfully, the community had more of a backbone back then. Firefox and Linux were not broken becau…

> Now, the same thing is happening again, except that Mozilla is on board with it. Mozilla doesn't have as much leverage now that a large part of "the community" has abandoned Firefox for Chrome. If you care about these issues, stop and consider the effect of your choice in user agent. > It's only a matter of time until Firefox is just a wrapper for webkit It will be a very cold day in hell before this happens. Mozil…

Mozilla also picked the wrong battles. Firefox languished while they chased mobile OSes and other projects. They have a much more formidable competitor in Google than they did with MS in the early days. So trying to go for both Android and Chrome's market when there isn't a whole lot wrong with those products is a hard sell.

Re: Update on HTML5 Video for Netflix

#283

Post by mastazi »

e40 wrote: post #256
franciscop wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree with "people want to watch what they want to watch." IMO the 2005-2015 wave of pirated content was due to the exact opposite; users (people in the living room) not going the extra literal mile to buy/rent a DVD. With the coming of Spotify & Co the music pirate scene has pretty much died off and it's because the physical CDs are replaces by something orders of magnitude easier . Same thing is happening w…

I don't agree with "people want to watch what they want to watch." I have quite a few data points that say you are flat wrong about that. I would add to this: people watch what they want to watch and how they want to watch it. I've literally downloaded HBO shows even though I'm an HBO Now subscriber. The Roku HBO Now app is so horrible, I just hate using it.

> I have quite a few data points

Show us the data points or it didn't happen.

I am highly sceptical about your statement and am convinced that most people are willing to pay in exchange for ease of use and convenience.

Re: Update on HTML5 Video for Netflix

#284

Post by tptacek »

pdeuchler wrote: post #268
tptacek wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google and Apple have very little leverage. If even one major studio withdrew all their content from Apple and only made it available on Netflix, Apple could potentially lose millions of subscribers. People want to watch what they want to watch.

I do not buy this for several reasons: 1) Content production is rapidly moving to an "in house" model, where subscribers are more heavily influenced by original and exclusive content 2) I doubt there would be large transfers of subscribers, more a slight depression across the board and large increases in piracy, as we saw rather distinctly with the early days of music providers (like before itunes early days) 3) Goog…

Content is indeed moving in house, and all the companies that are doing in-house production in any meaningful way DRM their content. So what does this matter?

Re: Update on HTML5 Video for Netflix

#285

Post by tptacek »

pikzen wrote: post #277
tptacek wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what sense is Netflix "freeloading"? Where does the free ride stop? Are they allowed to use TCP/IP stacks to deliver DRM? The HTTP protocol? Or is just Mozilla that's the problem?

You don't see in what sense forcing the implementation of DRM into an open standard (HTTP in a broad sense, which includes HTML, JS, etc.), that has been developed for the past decades in a rather open way so your company can keep making profits could be "freeloading"? Not to mention setting it up in such a way that their part of the web is broken if for some reason you do not have their blessing for their DRM. Netfl…

No, I don't. Can you help me understand? Netflix isn't preventing you from using any of the open standards already implemented in a browser.

Re: Update on HTML5 Video for Netflix

#286

Post by tedunangst »

tptacek wrote: post #113
shmerl wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't disagree. The usage of DRM has nothing to do with normal reasons. See https://www.gog.com/forum/general/introducing_gogcom_drmfree...

What the hell is Gog? Serious question. It was obviously never going to be my contention that there were no DRM-free video content producers. Just the major ones.

gog.com is actually pretty good for getting somewhat older computer games. Like steam, but with even less hassle, and fewer hassles like the steam client deciding it doesn't like your network connection.

Re: Update on HTML5 Video for Netflix

#287

Post by Nexxxeh »

Perhaps I'm missing the obvious here, but is this going to work On Firefox on Linux on ARM? Specifically Rasbian?

Also no mention of Nrtflix's biggest dick move of late re:DRM. 4K playback on the PC only on Edge? Ugh. But the real kicker is "only with Kaby Lake Intel chips".

Re: Update on HTML5 Video for Netflix

#288

Post by tptacek »

BuuQu9hu wrote: post #274
tptacek wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're rebutting an argument I didn't make. The CDM is closed-source, but it was closed-source in the pre-EME world too. My argument is that EME opens up DRM stacks; it's that it opens up more of the DRM stack than was open before it.

> by standardizing everything but (in essence) the authenticated key derivation step. Your argument is that EME covers most of the code responsible implementing DRM. This is false. EME is a small part. The large majority of the implementation is not standardized. For example, there is no equivalent of NPAPI in the post-EME world; the CDM/browser interface is browser-specific.

No, that's not my argument, as you can see from my comment above. What you've done here is twist my argument around to introduce claims I didn't make that you find easy to rebut.

Re: Update on HTML5 Video for Netflix

#290

Post by amelius »

dasil003 wrote: post #231
cyborgx7 wrote: post #2

Translation: Netflix successfully lobied DRM into what is supposed to be the OPEN web standard, to the point where even Firefox couldn't afford not to support it. Dark days for the free exchange of information enabled by the web.

Sorry, but as someone who spent nearly a decade founding and building a premium content VOD service, and 6 of those years fighting fiercely against DRM and making great content available without DRM, I have both the knowledge and moral authority to say that you're living in a fantasy world. You might as well say that anyone who is not living an RMS-sanctioned ascetic technology lifestyle is hurting the cause of free…

People have been recording the things they watch since the invention of the VCR.

DRM will not have any impact on that. Someone will come along, and make a video-grabbing utility that bypasses the DRM. Also, many of the content is already available via bittorrent.

DRM is pointless. But perhaps you are right about "browser vendors refusing to cooperate" not being the best possible approach. However, do you know what is?

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