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H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

economist.com

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Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#281

Post by Chris2048 »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #117
anjc wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't just the US too. It's the same all over Western Europe. What sticks in my craw even more is that, to legitimise the process of issuing more visas, companies and governments have to continually say "there aren't enough STEM and IT grads! Do STEM and IT everyone!" knowing full well that there wont be jobs for these kids at the end of it.

Anecdata: I'm in US. Three boys, all graduated Engineers. All have jobs, easy as pie. One had $30/hr part-time remote work during last year of college. Have to move to get the right job maybe, or take what you can find, but for various reasons they're all very happy. My Niece is in a field that's chronically low on qualified Engineers - she designs and installs automation in factories. So many facets including mechan…

"having work" isn't the only metric, the pay is relevant too. Presumably, the pay for these individuals is competitive?

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#282

Post by aub3bhat »

raitom wrote: post #263
raitom wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It takes years to get a green card on EB-3 (same on EB-2) if your country is Current. Most companies don't want to wait 2+ years and pay $10k in lawyer's fees.

@aub3bhat: Send me more informations about that. The PERM process in itself takes 6 months.

You can bypass PERM via NIW.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#283

Post by Chris2048 »

whack wrote: post #190
anjc wrote: post #97

>Although it is true that foreign workers at the Indian consultancies receive more visas than higher-skilled workers at better-known firms, a simple solution exists. Congress could raise the number of visas issued. Given that the unemployment rate for college graduates sits at 2.5%, it is fair to say that most native workers displaced by H-1Bs land on their feet. Absolute scum. Native workers displaced by H1Bs is ok…

Is there a single major industry where foreign workers wouldn't displace any native workers? If you go back a century or two, I'm sure the Irish/Italian immigrants displaced a whole lot of native workers as well. By your reasoning, the US would completely shut off all avenues for immigration.

The US has to balance worker displacement with staying competitive with other countries.

US competitivity, especially in specialised areas that it does well in, is different to a century or two ago.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#284

Post by jlj »

freyr wrote: post #205
loph wrote: post #103

This one sentence says it all: "The Economist found that between 2012 and 2015 the three biggest Indian outsourcing firms—TCS, Wipro and Infosys—submitted over 150,000 visa applications for positions that paid a median salary of $69,500. In contrast, America’s five biggest tech firms—Apple, Amazon, Facebook, Google and Microsoft—submitted just 31,000 applications, and proposed to pay their workers a median salary of…

You're comparing the average salary of all H-1B jobs (developer, accountant, analyst, etc.) to the salary of a developer. Instead, look at the average salaries for H-1B software engineers in 2016: Facebook @ Menlo Park: $152k Google @ Mountain View: $130k Apple @ Cupertino: $154k Amazon @ Seattle: $124k Microsoft @ Redmond: $120 So comparing base salary alone, these companies are definitely not underpaying their H-1B…

Many people I've worked with came to the US on H1-B's sponsored by the big outsourcing firms, then they move to one of the above mentioned companes. Presumably they move to those companies for better pay and working hours. And they have processes in place to handle the H1-B transfers. There is a lot of prestige with landing a job at those companies too. It's not everyone who can do that though, these folks are the upper end of the talent pool.

An argument I've heard for the lower paying jobs at the outsourcing companies is that they can communicate with the offshore teams in the local language. One on-site lead is gathering requirements and funneling work to 20 offshore devs. They work a full day during US hours then spend their evenings on calls with the offshore team. There is a huge supply of people overseas wanting those jobs so that they can get their foot into the US and then find something better. Supply and demand would naturally drive down the wages for those types of jobs.

Another path is to transfer from the bigger outsourcing firms to smaller US based consulting and staffing companies to do contracting work.

At this moment it seems that many companies have frozen their H1-B hiring with all of the US visa uncertainty. This is putting people in tough situations where they can't find work and have families to support that they brought with them to the US.

These are my own observations.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#285

Post by curun1r »

koolba wrote: post #30

What's the argument against using an auction for H1-B visas rather than a lottery? That'd maximize the tax collected from their salaries and ensure the salaries are on par with the going rate for said workers. Arguably it's in the interests of everyone besides companies trying to get cheaper labor via H1-B visas. The only counterpoint I've ever heard is " It's not fair for company XYZ in low cost of living Podunk, US…

The argument is probably that you'd end up in a situation where the highest-paid fields get all the H1-Bs and the lowest-paid fields get none. Workers in that highest-paid field would still get their salaries undercut and, in those lesser-paid field, there would be problems finding people with the right skills.

I'd favor a policy that looks at the ratio of citizens/green card holders to H1-Bs when determining priority. Want more H1-Bs? Hire more citizens and green card holders. This is similar to what other countries do in mandating that a certain number of locals be employed before you can employ a foreigner.

This both addresses the CoL objection you cited as well as the type of business objection I listed. But it would also destroy the body shops that basically only employ H1-Bs.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#286

Post by Chris2048 »

calvinbhai wrote: post #217
anjc wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well obviously if there's enough demand for workers, and immigrants are paid at the same rate, then nobody would displace anybody. I'm not saying that the US should shut off avenues for any immigration, but simply that indigenous workers shouldn't have to compete against low wage emerging economies in their own country. If companies want to off-shore, fine.

Let me offer a deal: If i get a green card today (no strings attached) I'll quit my H1b job right now I'll bootstrap my own startup that'll create 10 jobs in 1 year Does that sound like a good deal? You are happy, I'm happy, and all the jobs i create, those employees are happy. its a win-win-win deal.

What collateral do you offer against the unproven claim of "I'll create 10 jobs in 1 year"? Are you saying you'll fund the startup yourself?

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#287

Post by Chris2048 »

curun1r wrote: post #285
koolba wrote: post #30

What's the argument against using an auction for H1-B visas rather than a lottery? That'd maximize the tax collected from their salaries and ensure the salaries are on par with the going rate for said workers. Arguably it's in the interests of everyone besides companies trying to get cheaper labor via H1-B visas. The only counterpoint I've ever heard is " It's not fair for company XYZ in low cost of living Podunk, US…

The argument is probably that you'd end up in a situation where the highest-paid fields get all the H1-Bs and the lowest-paid fields get none. Workers in that highest-paid field would still get their salaries undercut and, in those lesser-paid field, there would be problems finding people with the right skills. I'd favor a policy that looks at the ratio of citizens/green card holders to H1-Bs when determining priorit…

> Workers in that highest-paid field would still get their salaries undercut

There are arguments that this isn't the case, though a bit out of my league.

> in those lesser-paid field, there would be problems finding people with the right skills

If a job requires a rare, yet specific skill, then why is it lesser-paid?

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#288

Post by alexmingoia »

geebee wrote: post #243

The economist proposes getting rid of the rule that requires H1B workers remain within the company that sponsors them That sounds reasonable, but why then require that a company sponsor an immigrant in the first place? Why not let that immigrant choose where he or she will work? In fact, why not let the immigrant choose what to study, where to work, where to live, all in response to market signals? People have posted…

This is the moral, practical, and efficient solution.

It's disheartening to see so many smart people blame H1B immigration for "harming" the tech econonomy, when the tech industry has comparatively high salaries and low unemployment. The amount of vitriol towards people trying to get by in life is unwarranted.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#289

Post by throwaway100217 »

forgotAgain wrote: post #144

A constant theme for support of H-1B's is that they supply the US with an irreplaceable resource for starting new technical companies. Despite this I have not heard reference of any individual who came to this country on a H-1B visa to work for an Indian outsourcing company who later participated in a significant successful startup. Honest question, does anyone know an example of this having occurred?

Several in my current circle and I followed that path.

I came to the US earning $63K per year at an outsourcing firm.

I am currently in a SaaS co with sales at $800K / year and 3 employees including me, growing and we will at least double our sales next year.

Thanks to my work (and trying not to brag here), earlier start-ups I've worked at (building their marquee products, pre-fundraising) have raised several millions and employeed 10s - 100s of people.

Re: H-1B visas mainly go to Indian outsourcing firms

#290

Post by Declanomous »

FireBeyond wrote: post #279
Declanomous wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A medical degree costs a lot more than the degree necessary to work in IT. I don't have the report off the top of my head, but doctors don't reach salary parity with their peers who got bachelors degrees until their mid-40s. Edit: I'm talking about lifetime earnings parity, not yearly parity. If you are marking $85k in IT as a 27 year old, you are way ahead of someone who starts making $175k at the age of 35 and has…

Lifetime earning parity... Let's make three assumptions: * person in IT has zero education debt (per your example). Not likely, but okay * retirement at 65 * no promotion, pay raises * education debt is at zero per cent (but since we're saying the IT worker has none, it balances a little) IT worker has 38 years of useful career at $85K. Earnings: $3.23M Physician has 30 years of useful career at $175K. Earnings: $5.2…

You are ignoring a lot of really important factors, such as investments. Obviously if neither person invests any money then the doctor will come out ahead at the end. Furthermore, if you are making $85k a year and haven't paid off your BA by the time you are 27 you are a moron. Plus, most of the debt the doctor will have is probably in the 6.5% range.

Regardless, I'm not saying that a doctor will make less than an IT worker over the course of their life, only that the IT worker will be leagues ahead of their doctor brethren for a large part of their working life.

On top of that, quality of life is an issue as well. Most doctors I know are still on call several nights a week, and work odd shifts. Most IT workers I know are on call for a fraction of the time doctors are on call, and generally work standard hours.

If money is your only goal, being a doctor is probably a more reliable career path. However, it's not far and away the more obvious career path, at least if you live in the United States.

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