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Amazon Worker Jumps Off Company Building After E-Mail to Staff

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Re: Amazon Worker Jumps Off Company Building After E-Mail to Staff

#281

Post by tracker1 »

chris_wot wrote: post #162
rifung wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They don't even know how to write bash scripts Is this weird? I only know of one or two coworkers who knows how to write bash scripts.. Despite almost knowing no bash, I was hired as an SDE1 at Amazon so your story adds up though!

It's super weird that anyone exposed to a Unix system can't write a bash script!

TBH, it depends... I usually have to double-check the usr/env shebang for bash in the first place.. even then, will google my way through it.

I work mostly in node.js these days, and will have others on windows or mac, and deploys to linux. A node script is usually safer for me, and I'm far more proficient... shell.js, mz and babel-cli makes it easier to do task scripts for automation. ymmv though.

It I had to write a bash script without the benefit of google, I'd totally fail.

Re: Amazon Worker Jumps Off Company Building After E-Mail to Staff

#282

Post by tracker1 »

mark_l_watson wrote: post #213
chris_wot wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's super weird that anyone exposed to a Unix system can't write a bash script!

I have had what most people would consider a great career and I don't write bash scripts. If I need to automate something then Ruby is my glue of choice or for simple things Makefiles.

Ditto but sub ruby for node... Though Python is probably more widely available (already installed) in nix environments.

Re: Amazon Worker Jumps Off Company Building After E-Mail to Staff

#283

Post by Urbanxassassin »

rockinghigh wrote: post #71
sssilver wrote: post #49

Following some of the discussion on this thread, I am constantly reminded of a priceless advice I got from a senior friend years ago. When thinking about an employer, above a certain size threshold, never judge a company. Always judge a department. You don't work for a company. You work for a department. Above a certain (fairly small) size, the only thing you'll share with the employees in the other departments will…

You can still judge company-wide policies like vacations, 401k match, or health care.

From my experience, vacation can vary by department in big companies.

Re: Amazon Worker Jumps Off Company Building After E-Mail to Staff

#284

Post by euyyn »

quanticle wrote: post #89
euyyn wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did. I truly wasn't performing as my peers, and my manager was pretty awesome about the whole situation. He asked me for my honest opinion on whether I was performing at the level I could (I thought I could do better), and what things I thought were causing it. I named things about me, things about the team, and things about the company in general. He explained the PIP was a deal: for three months he would take car…

Was it a formal PIP, though? In my experience there are many managers who'll do that for employees that they wish to retain, but who, for various reasons, aren't performing up to snuff. However, I've never heard of a manager bringing HR in, doing the PIP paperwork, and the employee surviving the PIP. In general, the moment HR gets involved (either in person or via formal paperwork) between you or your manager, you kn…

Yes, formal with the paperwork and everything.

It wasn't my manager who "brought HR in", though. Performance evaluation at my company isn't just the manager's discretion, and low performance will eventually get you a PIP.

Re: Amazon Worker Jumps Off Company Building After E-Mail to Staff

#285

Post by tedmiston »

wiz21c wrote: post #154
onion2k wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They make it clear that Amazon prefer employees who'll stay there for a while because employees only become value after a couple of years, or if you're feeling less generous, Amazon know that they'll extract all the value from someone in under a year before they're driven out. Either way the terms aren't insane; they're just very much weighted to the employer's beliefs.

By insane, I guess the OP was thinking "not moral"... >>> they're just very much weighted to the employer's beliefs That's no excuse. Hitting someone weaker than you is not "very much weighted to your beliefs".

A more precise word choice to convey my intent would have been "outrageous".

Re: Amazon Worker Jumps Off Company Building After E-Mail to Staff

#286

Post by sulam »

btdiehr wrote: post #261
sulam wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No incentive at best, disincentive usually. There is a steady stream of new grads willing to put up with it for a couple years. The horrible vesting means you aren't paying much for them, not to mention salaries are mildly low to start with. I have repeatedly heard these stories about Amazon -- it is one of the known-bad places to work, unless you have found a truly special situation. Keep in mind this is only compar…

> if you're not privileged enough to be a software developer. Being a software developer isn't a privilege, it's a choice.

Being able to make that choice is a privilege.

Re: Amazon Worker Jumps Off Company Building After E-Mail to Staff

#287

Post by tedmiston »

onion2k wrote: post #127
tedmiston wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those terms are insane.

They make it clear that Amazon prefer employees who'll stay there for a while because employees only become value after a couple of years, or if you're feeling less generous, Amazon know that they'll extract all the value from someone in under a year before they're driven out. Either way the terms aren't insane; they're just very much weighted to the employer's beliefs.

You're right. I should have finished that thought with "compared to a standard 1-year cliff and 25% per year".

In any case, dragging relocation out over two years feels wrong to me given that relocation is binary. I suppose in effect they are using it as a way to attach strings to a signing bonus.

Re: Amazon Worker Jumps Off Company Building After E-Mail to Staff

#288

Post by maverick_iceman »

Kiro wrote: post #163
u489utaa wrote: post #19

Amazon screws employees in ways unseen in other companies. From the perspective of an engineer, this is a terrible place for people to work and grow. To list a few things: - Equity vesting schedule is 5%, 15%, 40%, 40% over 4 years - Relocation package is prorated for TWO years. If you leave after staying for a full year, you still need to return 50% of it. - 401K matching only vests after working for 3 years. If you…

Seriously, from your initial sentence I was expecting something way worse. Those problems seem very trivial to me compared to most normal jobs where you don't get offered anything at all, ever. Not to mention the many jobs where you get abused for real.

Well, all of these are standard perks in SV. So compared to them Amazon is a really bad place to work.

Re: Amazon Worker Jumps Off Company Building After E-Mail to Staff

#289

Post by Spooky23 »

dilemma wrote: post #31
Spooky23 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Managers are cogs too. The way to work that kind of system is to identify and exploit the fears of the boss or his boss. I've seen this happen with employees under the thumb of micromanaging PMs in particular. They start spreading rumors, then undermine PM. My solution is to eliminate micro managers asap.

Interesting, never heard about this dynamic before. How does spreading rumors help them get out of being micromanaged? (sincere question)

If you're dealing with a straw boss (someone who has lots of responsibility, but little authority), dealing with them in a negative way is pretty simple -- you undermine their position by making sure that bad news or news that marginalizes the straw boss gets to the authority figure before the "boss" can deliver it.

Micromanagers and other really nasty people to work for are usually compensating for their own lack of power or security by making your life as miserable as possible.

The existence of people like this is a red flag for the organization because it always leads to negative outcomes.

Re: Amazon Worker Jumps Off Company Building After E-Mail to Staff

#290

Post by turar »

mter wrote: post #273
lamontcg wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be interested to know what you think after 5 years there and a few more reorgs. You may find that you got extremely lucky in where you first landed.

I've been reorged quite a few times. More than most people who have spent 5 years here. > You may find that you got extremely lucky in where you first landed. I have 3 other teams with previous coworkers who are currently having good experiences that I can go to if this one goes south. Yes there are a lot of teams that burn people out. I'm not blind. But there are also a number of us that have resisted the amazon way…

> But there are also a number of us that have resisted the amazon way and try to actually be human.

This last sentence was such a stark contrast with the rest of your comments above, that it almost feels like a slip or a that meme with a guy blinking an S-O-S signal with his eyes.

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