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U.S. Citizens Now Hold About $1.3 Trillion in Student Loan Debt

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Re: U.S. Citizens Now Hold About $1.3 Trillion in Student Loan Debt

#281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Fact 2: If you are loaned money to obtain a degree which is not economically valued then you will not be able to pay it back But for the vast majority of jobs people don't care what degree you have! In technology yes you often want someone with a particular degree. But if you're hiring a civil servant, a advertising executive, a business consultant, or any one of hundreds of other jobs, you can have any degree you…

And that is obviously ridiculous. > I have friends with theology degrees who work in business and earn more than I do in technology with my CS PhD. The companies that hire them value having people with a very wide range of academic backgrounds. That has nothing to do with their degree and everything with their ability. They would probably still get hired without the degree. Degrees only really matter in formal subjec…

> That has nothing to do with their degree and everything with their ability. They would probably still get hired without the degree.

You would think that, and it would logically seem to work that way. But in practice, it often doesn't.

A lot of employers are lazy, and use "has a degree" as a filter to cut down their applicants. And since there are so many applicants in nearly every field, it doesn't hurt the employer much. The biggest value in many degrees is literally just the ability to truthfully claim "I hold a degree", regardless of the field.

- - -

To improve that, we'd need to get employers to drop fake requirements from their job listings. But since there's (typically) only benefits to them for inflating their requirements, I don't think it's likely employers will willingly drop that requirement.

Re: U.S. Citizens Now Hold About $1.3 Trillion in Student Loan Debt

#283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like the value of adversity is lost sometimes on HN. We should be especially familiar with it. Earning a high level of income makes life extraordinarily comfortable, to the point where it is easy to become complacent and stop trying to really contribute to society in a meaningful way. Some times a struggle is not a bad thing. Not to the point where one should be homeless or starving of course, but having every…

This sentiment is so bizarre from a European perspective. So the only thing that stops people from getting an education willy nilly is student debt? Or American engineers are all better in some respects than German engineers because of their debt?

What I (as a fellow European who considers the American student loan craze equally bizarre) read into the "struggle" part of nightski's post is that people approach a given education opportunity very differently knowing that it is costing them (or, probably even stronger in most cases: their parents) a lot of money, vs. knowing that it is free. I sure hope that I would have crunched harder during that time knowing that it was a crazy expensive bet and not just the opportunity cost of not entering the workforce early.

What I am not so sure is wether that hard crunch would have actually been better. I suspect that without the more freewheeling approach of European universities, I would have gone even deeper into the pointlessness of learning for the grade instead of learning for the education.

Generally speaking, my impression is that many people wildly overestimate the per-head cost of low intensity university education. Without artificially inflated budgets (driven by the misuse of tuition height as an indicator of academic quality), a few lecture halls, some professors and the usual lower echelons of academia who are basically donating their time for peanuts and the chance to occasionally publish seems to be an absolute bargain compared to other programmes designed for keeping people off the streets.

Re: U.S. Citizens Now Hold About $1.3 Trillion in Student Loan Debt

#284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basic income. Free tuition. An outright grant, no repayments. Literally zero barriers except ability for anyone, for any level of academic achievement in anything. Result: a culture with a lot more understanding of the real world, and the preservation of human and humane values, rather than a laser focus on the hand-to-mouth of Jobs Right Now.

If we have basic income, why do we need to be educated at all? Just stay home and live minimally.

Because self-actualization is a human need and for a lot of people education is a means for that. Because some of us enjoy creating things that are of value to others. Because life is more than survival, basically.

Re: U.S. Citizens Now Hold About $1.3 Trillion in Student Loan Debt

#285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basic income I think is going to have to happen at some point in our lifetime. There are just simply not enough jobs. Please stop saying 'free' tuition. It's not free, it is just not paid by the student. Keep in mind that many states already have just this setup for in state students to use lottery money.

It's also the mode of operation for ages 5-18, with a nation wide avg of 12K / year in spending per student. So that 160k-ish in spending is downright American, but spending 1/4-1/2 of it on college is a give-away, socialism, the very demise of lady liberty

Why stop there? Why not have it be open to everyone, forever, at any point of their life? Why should anyone have to work at all?

Re: U.S. Citizens Now Hold About $1.3 Trillion in Student Loan Debt

#286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basic income I think is going to have to happen at some point in our lifetime. There are just simply not enough jobs. Please stop saying 'free' tuition. It's not free, it is just not paid by the student. Keep in mind that many states already have just this setup for in state students to use lottery money.

It's also the mode of operation for ages 5-18, with a nation wide avg of 12K / year in spending per student. So that 160k-ish in spending is downright American, but spending 1/4-1/2 of it on college is a give-away, socialism, the very demise of lady liberty

[deleted]

Re: U.S. Citizens Now Hold About $1.3 Trillion in Student Loan Debt

#287
post #117

There seems to be a strong sentiment in this thread that the only value provided by education is the contribution to career (e.g. that loans should only be provided for financially viable courses, that studying arts is as useful to one's career as studying finger painting, etc). This just seems so wrong. Optimising for vocational training means you're effectively tuning out the abstract arts and sciences and... oh, t…

> There seems to be a strong sentiment in this thread that the only value provided by education is the contribution to career

I don't believe that's the sentiment at all. Few on here will argue against the value of a well-rounded liberal arts education. However, the sentiment is that if an education requires borrowing piles of money, it should lead to employment which can realistically service the loan.

Re: U.S. Citizens Now Hold About $1.3 Trillion in Student Loan Debt

#288
post #21

I think the solution is ending loans for college. I don't think an 18-year-old with no assets, or even a stable job or no job at all should be given that much money for college. No bank would give them a loan for a house. At least you can foreclose on a house and take it back. You can't take back someone's education. Plus every time the department of education gives out more money, colleges raise prices. Imagine how…

> "I totally agree with our President-Elect about getting rid of the DoE, along with Common core. Let things be up to the states." Okay, I'll bite. What? As is, with the DoE and Common Core, we struggle to get the poorer states to educate its students adequately compared to the wealthier states. Take a look at any metric you want about education in New Mexico, Louisiana, West Virginia and compare it to Massachusetts,…

Is that more important than to have an entire generation be slaves to debt?

Re: U.S. Citizens Now Hold About $1.3 Trillion in Student Loan Debt

#289
post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, but how does that translate into policy? Fact 1: Education in the US is very expensive, in large part because the ready availability of loans removes most downwards pressure on prices. Fact 2: If you are loaned money to obtain a degree which is not economically valued then you will not be able to pay it back. Fact 3: If you loan people money without expecting people to pay it back, then it's not a loan, it's a…

Basic income. Free tuition. An outright grant, no repayments. Literally zero barriers except ability for anyone, for any level of academic achievement in anything. Result: a culture with a lot more understanding of the real world, and the preservation of human and humane values, rather than a laser focus on the hand-to-mouth of Jobs Right Now.

If someone can just get on Basic Income, why even bother with attending college and putting in all that hard work?

This is a serious question. Most people are not intrinsically motivated; the hacker news echo-chamber is an anomaly.

Re: U.S. Citizens Now Hold About $1.3 Trillion in Student Loan Debt

#290
post #117

There seems to be a strong sentiment in this thread that the only value provided by education is the contribution to career (e.g. that loans should only be provided for financially viable courses, that studying arts is as useful to one's career as studying finger painting, etc). This just seems so wrong. Optimising for vocational training means you're effectively tuning out the abstract arts and sciences and... oh, t…

There are still people in the US without access to clean water. In some parts of the country, primary and secondary school education is abysmal. As far as I'm concerned, it's a question of priorities. Sure, I love the humanities, but the government only has so many tax dollars, and studying Shakespeare in university is not a priority.

> There are still people in the US without access to clean water.

[citation needed]

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