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Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

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Re: Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

#281

Post by JoeAltmaier »

lhopki01 wrote: post #275
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on the restaurant. McDonalds', sure. Michelin 3-star, probably not. I don't cook like that.

So on aggregate you're saying that it'll use less energy? Or are you say on average people go to Michelin 3-star in cities?

Probably on aggregate it'll use less, fair.

My old Dad was in the Korean War. The soldiers said then that probably everybody would eat in 'mess halls' in the future, because it made so much sense. Of course these were farm kids seeing such things for the first time.

Re: Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

#282

Post by MarchHare »

bsznjyewgd wrote: post #77
djsumdog wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we wouldn't see things as being nearly this bad if all American cities didn't rip out their tram networks. Every city I've lived in, even small ones with ~100k people, use to have Streetcars. Today, cities like Cincinnati struggle to get a tiny segment put in. Trams carry a ton more people than buses. People are more likely to ride them too. If American cities hadn't given in to GM and Ford and kept streetcar…

I don't really get why trams are better than buses. Do they really carry a ton more people than buses? Why are people more likely to ride them? Buses come in short/long/articulated/double-decker sizes and don't need to be on rails or require overhead electrical lines. The only argument I can think of is that you get a smoother ride and no need to burn fuel with a tram. (I've only ridden the trams in one city, and the…

One factor nobody has mentioned yet, social stigma. Busses in the US are often associated with poor people who can't afford a car or have lost their licenses. Trams do not have the same stigma.

Re: Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

#283

Post by [deleted] »

aninhumer wrote: post #263
tjic wrote: post #245

Meh. You also pay for the cost of public parks even if you never use them. You pay for the cost of government elementary schools even if you homeschool your kids. etc. Now, I'm an anarchocapitalist and would love to see all of these costs unbundled, so that we each pay only for what we use. ...but the other 99.9% of folks in our society think that it is reasonable to have one-size-fits-all solutions, where a single b…

I don't think that's special pleading exactly. They're not saying "people should only pay for what they use, except for all these things I want and they don't", they're saying "people should be forced to pay for certain things, and those things should coincidentally be the ones I want". It's self-serving, but it's not an exception to a general principle.

[deleted]

Re: Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

#284

Post by 0xcde4c3db »

MarchHare wrote: post #282
bsznjyewgd wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really get why trams are better than buses. Do they really carry a ton more people than buses? Why are people more likely to ride them? Buses come in short/long/articulated/double-decker sizes and don't need to be on rails or require overhead electrical lines. The only argument I can think of is that you get a smoother ride and no need to burn fuel with a tram. (I've only ridden the trams in one city, and the…

One factor nobody has mentioned yet, social stigma. Busses in the US are often associated with poor people who can't afford a car or have lost their licenses. Trams do not have the same stigma.

> Busses in the US are often associated with poor people who can't afford a car

Also, to be blunt, black people. I live in a pretty white area. If I didn't ride the bus, I could probably not see a single black person for a week or two at a time. Riding the bus, it's every day. And I'm quite sure a lot more people prefer the former scenario than will admit it (not that they necessarily have any particular animosity, but a lot of people are "just not comfortable" inhabiting the same space as black people).

Re: Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

#285

Post by [deleted] »

JDDunn9 wrote: post #163
closeparen wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I propose a fundamental principle that should be obvious, but apparently isn't. Public policy should aim to improve average quality of life in the short, medium, and long terms. We live in low-population-density areas because we get more, higher quality housing for less money, shorter lines, less crowded public places. We drive instead of taking transit because we get where we're going faster and more comfortably, si…

Many of the benefits you listed are good examples of how people are actually pretty bad at predicting what will make them happier. We have a lot of data on the subject. - People think that living in a larger home will make them happier than a shorter commute. Cohort studies show the opposite is true. We adapt most quickly to things (good/bad) that stay the same (like the size of your house), and poorly to things that…

[deleted]

Re: Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

#286

Post by treehau5 »

JDDunn9 wrote: post #163
closeparen wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I propose a fundamental principle that should be obvious, but apparently isn't. Public policy should aim to improve average quality of life in the short, medium, and long terms. We live in low-population-density areas because we get more, higher quality housing for less money, shorter lines, less crowded public places. We drive instead of taking transit because we get where we're going faster and more comfortably, si…

Many of the benefits you listed are good examples of how people are actually pretty bad at predicting what will make them happier. We have a lot of data on the subject. - People think that living in a larger home will make them happier than a shorter commute. Cohort studies show the opposite is true. We adapt most quickly to things (good/bad) that stay the same (like the size of your house), and poorly to things that…

Classic case of cherry picking statistics.

Re: Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

#287

Post by Ensorceled »

hackuser wrote: post #114
Ensorceled wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people own cars. One the anticipated benefits of self-driving cars is that they can be shared rather than owned. If they are shared they can be constantly in use rather than parked and when parked do not need to be parked where they were last used.

Why are self-driving cars more easily or more likely shared than human-driven cars? Someone else pointed out that they cost less to operate, but I wonder how much will change. People like owning things, including nice cars.

The reason you and I can't share a human driven car right now is because I need it to drive to work and so do you. But I leave for work at 6:30am, usually, and you might leave at 8:30. We could share a self driving car that drops me off and then goes back to pick you up.

It becomes even easier with a bigger pool.

Also, it breaks the driver/car connection since you are no longer a driver.

Finally, the real reason. Without a cab driver to pay and tip, cabs are actually cheaper than ownership. This is Uber's end game.

Re: Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

#288

Post by optimuspaul »

closeparen wrote: post #156
JDDunn9 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, we are seeing a return towards urbanisation globally, which is a positive trends, since it's a vital component for curbing global warming. Residents of NYC use 1/3 as much electricity as their suburban counterparts, use a tiny fraction of the carbon emissions on transportation, and produce less garbage. All without convincing New Yorkers to recycle or drive electric cars. Environmental responsibility is bak…

Residents of NYC pay $3000/mo for 1-bedroom apartments, while their suburban counterparts pay $1000/mo for 3-bedroom houses. You could buy quite a few solar panels and lease several electric cars for less than it would take to move to NYC.

Or you could move to a city with more reasonable housing costs, like Minneapolis where 2br apartments <$2k/mo.

Re: Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

#289

Post by wcummings »

mahyarm wrote: post #213
djsumdog wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> as good as rail for a fraction of the cost of laying track It's really not. Even long/double decker buses carry a fraction of the people a streetcar can. Streetcars are still faster given other things being equal (dedicated lanes). The maintenance of streetcars is much better. You have no tyers, fully electric engines, high torque and lower energy consumption. Buses are good for short term routes, but long term a r…

Don't you get most of that with electric busses then? I can see the argument although for automation and how you can multicar trams with one driver.

>Don't you get most of that with electric busses then?

If you're going to put up catenary wires why not just make it a tram?

Re: Poor people pay for parking even when they can’t afford a car

#290

Post by optimuspaul »

usrusr wrote: post #223
desas wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think people will prefer to use a self driving car that gets them to the office ten minutes faster or one that meanders around picking up other people and dropping them off?

For many people, that meander will save them more money than they will earn in any other 10 minute slot of the day. And sitting in a robocab is smartphone media consumption time (or time for a printed newspaper, if you're a Vicky), it's not terribly hard to tolerate minutes that way. A well designed (and sufficiently dense in usage) shared autonomous car system could also support usage patterns a lot more dynamic tha…

> if you're a Vicky

What does that mean? Like someone from the victorian age? I think they are all dead.

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