Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team • Hacker News Board

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#281

Post by bobwaycott » Fri, Nov 11, 2016, 4:05 AM UTC

wsmith wrote: post #76

moultano wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Thiel suggested in 2009 that giving women the vote was a bad thing. He did not say that. Read the article yourself. https://www.cato-unbound.org/2009/04/13/peter-thiel/educatio...

Also note Thiel added remarks to the article at the bottom, including: It would be absurd to suggest that women’s votes will be taken away or that this would solve the political problems that vex us.

That statement does not counter a reading that Thiel believes granting women suffrage was a bad thing, and that this, combined with the expansion of social welfare programs, is incompatible with his ideals. All he says is it would be absurd to take it away now, and it wouldn't solve the problems he cares about.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#282

Post by gnarbarian » Fri, Nov 11, 2016, 4:06 AM UTC

kafkaesq wrote: post #266

jbpetersen wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any specific highlights?

In addition to what others have said: His head-over-heels support for a decidedly anti-libertarian candidate like Trump is in itself quite extremist. This has always been one of the standard tools for (crypto-)fascists and closet authoritarians of all ilks to get into positions of influence -- by using people of nominally "opposing" viewpoints as, in effect, wedge instruments to disrupt the system as violently as pos…

You can't call trump an extremist when half the country voted for him.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#283

Post by oldmanjay » Fri, Nov 11, 2016, 4:07 AM UTC

scrollaway wrote: post #102

jerf wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you went Godwin. Trump isn't Hitler. That's election propaganda, not truth. Election's over. Time to put the election propaganda away. Now, you might still not like him. Heck, let me take a bold step and say you won't like him. He will do things you won't like. Welcome to the real world. My government's been doing things I don't like my entire life. (Along with all the things I do like.) But I rate the odds that…

> In the event that he really does turn into Hitler, I promise to stand up to stop him along with all the other people who will. Well, that's nice - although you just agreed to something you believe won't happen. I don't believe he will, either; but are you standing up to what his electorate is doing? http://nymag.com/thecut/2016/11/trump-voters-threatened-wome... Take it from someone who saw what Brexit did to the U…

It seems that you want people with opinions you find odious to be unhappy all the time and accept that as their lot in life. If I've understood that correctly, by what mechanism do you propose this work?

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#284

Post by rtpg » Fri, Nov 11, 2016, 4:08 AM UTC

lucio wrote: post #243

ForrestN wrote: post #94

Is there a kind of "political correctness" that refuses the acknowledgment of facts and likelihoods that sound similar to irrational dismissal? Does that kind prevent people from hearing the following things which I think most people would agree to be true? -Donald Trump says he wants to completely deregulate the banking industry, which will most likely, in the long term, lead to a crisis on par with or greater than…

It seems that if you oppose an elected government, as in "muster all of its leverage, economic and otherwise, in the fight to curtail the power of Thiel's organization (The Trump Administration)", you're opposing democracy.

Organised protest is a right. You can accept the result of an election, and then fight the elected government in court. Checks and balances and all that.

Nobody is forcing me to be friends with Peter Thiel.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#285

Post by serf » Fri, Nov 11, 2016, 4:08 AM UTC

tempestn wrote: post #176

noobermin wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never said people on the left don't do it. Yes, Obama did it too. The point is Trump isn't what he appears to be, in fact he appears very similar to Obama in the sense that he convinced many people there would be change for the better but all evidence points to that he will just perpetuate the system which he rallied against (which Obama did too).

Legitimate question: what could Obama have done better? Being Canadian I didn't take as close an interest as I would have in my own government, but it seemed from my perspective like he was doing everything he could to bring about change. The problem appeared to be that he had a very different idea of what that change should be than the Republican Congress, and short of utterly capitulating, I'm not sure how you unil…

>> Legitimate question: what could Obama have done better?

I don't know, i'm no politician; i'm just waiting on the 2008 Obama campaign promise to close Guantanamo Bay (to clarify: I mean cease black operations at that site indefinitely -- I don't have any illusions that the U.S. will stop illegal black operations internationally.).

I don't know whether or not if it's an impossibility at this point to do so; but I also believe if it is impossible it probably shouldn't have been a campaign promise used to influence voters.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#286

Post by mikekij » Fri, Nov 11, 2016, 4:08 AM UTC

randycupertino wrote: post #196

cmsmith wrote: post #183

Given the choice between Thiel (favors reconstitution of our political establishment and believes in science and technology) and the rest of the Trump hangers-on (are ambivalent towards reconstitution of the establishment and are anti-science), this is a decent outcome.

"believes in science and technology" Not really, since he denies global warming: https://youtu.be/CoxxGhLFbw4?t=2m25s

Not believing in a particular scientific viewpoint does not mean one does not believe in science. Most of the great scientific discoveries were at one point contrary to the collective scientific wisdom, e.g. heliocentricity, evolution, quantum mechanics, relativity.

*Note: I'm not equating a lack of belief in AGW with relativity.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#287

Post by chmullig » Fri, Nov 11, 2016, 4:09 AM UTC

rajathagasthya wrote: post #181

darawk wrote: post #4

This is good news, I think? Thiel has some extremish views, but I generally regard him as intelligent and thoughtful. And he's in close contact with other smart, influential people (e.g. Musk, Sam Altman, etc.), which gives them some indirect influence. Not that this makes things substantially better. But maybe a little bit? Hopefully?

> I generally regard him as intelligent and thoughtful Based on a YouTube video mentioned in another comment thread ( https://youtu.be/CoxxGhLFbw4?t=2m30s ), I wouldn't regard him as intelligent by any means.

After seeing him speak, I agree. He seems dumb, assholish, and lucky.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#288

Post by preordained » Fri, Nov 11, 2016, 4:09 AM UTC

daxorid wrote: post #37

_pius wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great moral courage there. YC has a choice: do what IBM did in the 1930's or not. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_and_the_Holocaust And before you say I'm "going Godwin," remember: It was Sam and Paul who've said they think Trump is a threat of similar proportions. If Sam really thinks that, the moral thing to do is cut ties. And yes, it'll be hard. Would have been easier to do before the election. It will only get…

What is going on with this community? I feel like I am taking proverbial crazy pills. Clinton advocated for a "Manhattan Project" scope effort to backdoor crypto. She wants no-fly zones over Syria, a place we have NO business being in, to directly provoke proxy wars with Russia. She is extremely antagonistic to freedom of association and free enterprise, and she LOVES the panopticon surveillance state we have. She is…

Yup...all points that warrant much pause and consideration, to understate the hell out of it. Yet these "details" are glossed over in a discussion by "thinking" people. It's as if people put on their thinking caps to build some software, but chuck it in a wastebin and rely 100% on hunches and assumptions as they navigate the rest of their world...their beliefs, community, state of their country...no critical thinking needed or desired. Just react. Take it all at face value. He's the bad one. She's the good one. So simple.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#289

Post by ForrestN » Fri, Nov 11, 2016, 4:09 AM UTC

lucio wrote: post #243

ForrestN wrote: post #94

Is there a kind of "political correctness" that refuses the acknowledgment of facts and likelihoods that sound similar to irrational dismissal? Does that kind prevent people from hearing the following things which I think most people would agree to be true? -Donald Trump says he wants to completely deregulate the banking industry, which will most likely, in the long term, lead to a crisis on par with or greater than…

It seems that if you oppose an elected government, as in "muster all of its leverage, economic and otherwise, in the fight to curtail the power of Thiel's organization (The Trump Administration)", you're opposing democracy.

No. More people voted for Hillary Clinton. And the Electoral College is constitutionally enshrined to stop candidates like Trump. From wikipedia:

James Madison argued against "an interested and overbearing majority" and the "mischiefs of faction" in an electoral system. He defined a faction as "a number of citizens whether amounting to a majority or minority of the whole, who are united and actuated by some common impulse of passion, or of interest, adverse to the rights of other citizens, or to the permanent and aggregate interests of the community."

Whether you respect the Electoral College or don't, Trump should not be the President. But given that he will be, we have an obligation to stand against him. And to shame those who refuse to stand against him and his administration. Sadly this appears to include YC and its leaders.

Re: Peter Thiel To Join Trump Transition Team

#290

Post by edblarney » Fri, Nov 11, 2016, 4:10 AM UTC

ForrestN wrote: post #94

Is there a kind of "political correctness" that refuses the acknowledgment of facts and likelihoods that sound similar to irrational dismissal? Does that kind prevent people from hearing the following things which I think most people would agree to be true? -Donald Trump says he wants to completely deregulate the banking industry, which will most likely, in the long term, lead to a crisis on par with or greater than…

"Donald Trump and Paul Ryan plan to strip approximately 20 million people of health insurance, "

No - they said they are going to repeal and replace Obamacare with something else. That does not mean they are going to strip people of their health insurance.

"Donald Trump is part of a movement to dismantle pluralism in the United States, including the marginalization of immigrants and their descendants"

This is a lie. Trump has consistently supported all legal immigrants, and voiced concern against those entering the country illegally. Again - your position misrepresents reality and paints anyone who is against illegal immigration to be against all immigrants, and a 'racist' etc..

As a non-Trump supporter, you should easily be able to win someone like me over - but you can't when you mix in so much hyperbole.

It's comments like this that basically made me stop supporting progressive causes about 10 years ago, even though in general, I do support a lot of it ... I never give them the benefit of the doubt anymore.