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California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

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Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#281

Post by ArkyBeagle »

brooklyndavs wrote: post #105
api wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen the "alpha cities" phenomenon explode since 2000. Where you live has become a proxy for your competence, importance, etc. I'm not convinced it's not the Internet. Google "FOMO" for a possible mechanism. The Internet makes it easy for large cities, by sheer social mass, to send out a louder cultural signal and convince everyone else they are missing something by not being there. Talk to a young midwesterner…

"Opportunity clusters in cities where there is capital available, and those tend to be the big cities where the most rich people live." Which, in 2016, is kinda crazy. One would think with the internet being geographically close to capital wouldn't matter as much. Now it matters more than ever before it seems. It's sad that the young midwesterner (hey that was me once!) has to try to "get to NYC" for the best opportu…

Ironically, a recent contact told me of people who work there remotely, but from California.

We're doing it wrong :)

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#282

Post by ArkyBeagle »

wdmeldon wrote: post #126
api wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen the "alpha cities" phenomenon explode since 2000. Where you live has become a proxy for your competence, importance, etc. I'm not convinced it's not the Internet. Google "FOMO" for a possible mechanism. The Internet makes it easy for large cities, by sheer social mass, to send out a louder cultural signal and convince everyone else they are missing something by not being there. Talk to a young midwesterner…

"This isn't new, but I do wonder if the net is amplifying it." I don't know about amplifying it, but it's certainly revealing that there are much better opportunities out there. Working in the midwest and reading about the coasts is depressing as hell.

As an Old Guy the coasts are depressing as hell.

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#283

Post by ZanyProgrammer »

justinlardinois wrote: post #250
ZanyProgrammer wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To enjoy a halfway decent life in the Bay Area (to not require roommates to meet expenses, own a car, and not have to commute from the Central Valley everyday) I'd say you have to make 6 figures. Or be married to/BFF with someone who does. Moving from the Bay Area to Portland, my salary increased by 8%, but I can afford my own apartment and s brand new car, middle class hallmarks that were way out of my league in Sun…

Six figures is a huge exaggeration. You can reasonably find a one bedroom apartment for yourself in west San Jose for $2000/month, likely less if you shop around or are willing to live in a studio, and live off $1000-1500/month for everything else. Even if you're making payments of a few hundred a month on, you don't need to be anywhere close to six figures to have that lifestyle. Granted, the level of income you'd n…

In order to be able to afford 2K for a one bedroom apartment (definitely on the low end for Santa Clara County) you're going to have to save up at least that much for moving expenses. Want to try doing that on a less than 6 figure salary (I'd say 85K maybe if you want to stretch it). 60K could've landed you a cheap apartment in 2007, but not anymore.

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#284

Post by sbardle »

hx87 wrote: post #225
sbardle wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the risk of the grossest generalisation, the Bay Area has worked because it's combined two very different types of people. On the one hand, the engineers/techies (with roots in the defence industry and conservative midwest backgrounds) and on the other, the idealists/utopians (with roots in the counter-culture movement). Strange bedfellows, but a world-changing combination back then. I don't live in the Valley now…

If it is a monoculture now, it's because the engineer culture took on counterculture values while pricing the actual counterculture out of the region. The engineers still have their conservatism in that they tend to think of as many possible failure modes as possible and try to address then when they can. It's just not recognizable as such because the rational, cautious, establishmentarian 1950s conservatism has been…

Maybe it was also just a unique period of history, never to again be repeated.

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#285

Post by Redoubts »

FreakyT wrote: post #37

All control of Bay Area housing should be put into the hands of a single "housing czar" with absolute authority to rezone. Usually democratic methods are preferable, but in this case it's clear they've failed in an absolute sense, and a new approach is needed.

I think it would make more sense if counties and/or towns were consolidated rather than being the checkerboard of beggar-thy-neighbor constituencies it is now.

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#286

Post by manacit »

antimatter wrote: post #170
overcast wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one is denying the beauty, and adventures that await in California, that's why people live there. The issue here is what the original article is all about. When it becomes a grind just to live there, you can't even enjoy what makes it so awesome to be there.

This. I've lived in Los Angeles almost my whole life. I visited the beach maybe once in the last 5 years. Why? Because to do so, you have to be willing to sit in at least 1-1.5 hours of traffic. When you get there, at least 30 min to find parking. There are simply too many people in CA at this point to enjoy anything it offers. Leaving the house for me means waiting (in traffic, lines, for parking, etc).

Something that a lot of commenters (and the article) missed is that there is a _lot_ of CA that's not: LA, SF, SD, etc.

I grew up (and my parents live) near San Luis Obispo, CA. The central coast has: pockets of perfect weather, proximity to wonderful beaches, proximity to winte rsports, etc. Yet, there's under a quarter of a million people in their gigantic county, and a small apartment or house can be found for a (fairly) reasonable price in parts of the area. SLO even has a fantastic university and a bit of tech has sprung up around it (Amazon has SWE offices, etc).

Much like people who don't live on the coast harp on, there's much more to CA than the popular few cities.

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#287

Post by WalterBright »

rconti wrote: post #243
WalterBright wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the rain in Seattle. It makes things peaceful, and the wet air smells good. (I grew up in Arizona, where 367 days of clear blue sky gets a bit boring .)

After about 10 years here in CA, I started liking the rain too. Now I love it when it rains. I just hated the way unpredictable weather (==rain) meant you could never plan an outdoor activity in the PNW without the decent possibility of it getting rained on. It limited my enjoyment of the "great outdoors". But in a larger sense, my (mood-related) gripe was with the grey, not the rain itself.

I do miss the Arizona sunsets, though. And the electric storms in Kansas - what a show!

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#288

Post by binarysolo »

Hoo boy, these articles make the rounds every couple days.

People live in the Bay Area because of: professional opportunities, culture, weather, and social network. If you value those things more than high cost of living then you stay -- you either have the privilege of money or the tolerance of being financially stretched and not have all the nice things.

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#289

Post by superswordfish »

HillaryBriss wrote: post #268
superswordfish wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just pray you don't end up on the wrong side of the law (to be fair, the same could be said of CA).

> the same could be said of CA I don't think anyone would want to spend time in a typical CA prison or jail. Overcrowding, violence, gangs, insufficient medical care, etc. LA County has had some well publicized problems with sheriff's department guards severely beating handcuffed inmates. It's probably not a place you want to visit.

Definitely. CA prisons are some of the worst in the nation, which is why the state was ordered to release prisoners to reduce crowding. But Texas has a death penalty with teeth, hard labor, corporal punishment, and equally poor prison conditions (less crowded and less of a gang problem, but way worse weather which you're mostly not sheltered from). The south in general is a terrible place to fall afoul of the law, and probably either Texas or Louisiana claims the trophy.

Re: California's skyrocketing housing costs, taxes prompt exodus of residents

#290

Post by cylinder »

justinlardinois wrote: post #247
cylinder wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same with transportation. The reason transport is such a mess is because of all the different municipalities involved. To continue to think of the Bay as a group of totally independent cities is ridiculous.

I get what you're saying, but what's the alternative? Go back to the first half of the 1900s where San Jose was annexing everything?

Transportation handled on a state level with total authority by the state to place tracks and stations wherever they want. Certainly consultation should take place but ultimately state decides.

And yes, forced municipality amalgamation should take place. Enough with all the small villages that want to be their own city with their own rules to keep others out. Take a look at what Sydney is doing right now with council amalgamations to override NIMBY power. Melbourne did this a long time ago and as a result has been able to effect a lot more urban planning.

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