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Brussels Rocked by Terrorist Attacks

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Re: Brussels Rocked by Terrorist Attacks

#281
Today is the first time since 9/11 that I can remember hearing the news of a terrorist attack and not being gripped by panic. I guess the Boston Marathon Bombings, Paris Attacks (Charlie Hebdo and Bataclan both) shootings and other events have kind of led me being in an oddly calm state when I hear news like this now.

This is not the way I want to feel. If you would've told me around 8:30 a.m. on September 10th the way things would be changed, I couldn't have fathomed it. I was sitting in my high school Spanish class, trying to get the attention of a girl who probably doesn't even remember my name now. But things changed and I kind of came into my own with those changes, growing up, going to college, getting one job, then another. It became normal.

Data is the buzzword now. I eat it and breathe it every single day. I work with collections of numbers and information. These are the same things that keep us safe from attacks - collections numbers and information. The NSA and others rely on it. For every attack we hear about, I cannot even venture a guess on how many are thwarted.

Given that numbers and information are critical tools in trying to prevent future tragedies, I struggle with the same question we all do: how much is too much? What do I want to let the government know about me? About my family? About where I travel and when? Is there an inevitable trade-off between safety and privacy?

I think abut these things at work, at home, while driving. It seems now that we are facing a new breed of terror that has evolved, even since 2001. It is calculated yet seemingly random, completely lawless yet in their eyes the only lawful way to live, more violent, vile and sadistic any other terrorist cell I have heard about.

So you would think, given the way I feel about this new iteration of terror, and the struggle I have with personal privacy questions, I would've been paralyzed with anxiety this morning, seeking meaning, trying to configure a strategy in my head for how the governments involved will deal with it and prevent future attacks.

But I did not feel or do those things. I poured my coffee and walked out the door. Of course I feel horrible for the poor innocent lives lost, but as far as worrying and obsessing about it, I just cannot. This is not how I want to feel. I fear that my not panicking signals attacks like this as a new normal for me, something my 17 year-old self never could've or would've wanted to imagine. Thanks everyone for sharing thoughts and insights on this, I think it is helping me process yet another attack in my own way.

Re: Brussels Rocked by Terrorist Attacks

#282
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a clear weakness of airports: where people regroup even before reaching the terminal, with no surveillance or security checks whatsoever. And that's not just in Brussels.

I traveled through Baku airport in Azerbaijan last summer which had body and luggage scanners at the entrance to the terminal. I wonder how long before this becomes the norm?

This really won't help the issue. You still create choke points where many people are waiting to pass through the security check.

People interested in killing others will just go for the easiest place, so they will just bomb the line at the scanners entering the terminal.

I talk to a lot of frequent fliers, and almost every one of them has said that there is no point to a terrorist trying to bomb a plane any more. The easiest target for terrorism is simply the insecure portion of an airport. We saw this today in Brussels.

Re: Brussels Rocked by Terrorist Attacks

#283
post #118
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we need more police Why is this a bad thing? I feel safer with more police presence but maybe that's just me.

That's exactly what more police will do. Make people feel safer, not actually be more safe. It's security theater. [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_theater

Belgium recently said that nearly every one of their available officers was running down ISIS / jihad leads, they've essentially stopped investigating other crimes and still don't have the manpower required. They're in desperate need of more well-trained police.

Re: Brussels Rocked by Terrorist Attacks

#284

Presented without comment: "This is a solid Moment to get up to speed on the Brussels situation. Click the follow button to stay in the loop." - @sacca https://twitter.com/sacca/status/712270790037610499

I know @sacca is a huge promoter of twitter (and investor in..), but I was in bed this morning putting off getting ready to go to work and I saw his tweet about the Moment. It was actually really useful, much easier than trying to aggregate wtf was happening from 20 disparate tweets and feeds.

Re: Brussels Rocked by Terrorist Attacks

#285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't read the entire Atlantic piece, but given the fact that we know there is an ISIS affiliated group operating Belgium, I don't see how you can possibly be so certain it wasn't ISIS. I think it's far more likely that these attacks were triggered by the recent arrest of Salah Abdeslam and the killing of Mohamed Belkaid (in two different raids). There were multiple other suspects who were not captured/killed, an…

I think there is a marked difference between ISIS affiliated and ISIS supported. Any group can claim affiliation/solidarity with ISIS. But I really do recommend reading the Atlantic piece, it's the only deep dive I've ever seen written that explains some seemingly inexplicable behavior. That said, I agree this is likely retaliation, I'm just not sure how big the "enemy" we're fighting in Belgium is. Today's attack to…

> Today's attack took a minimum of what, 3 people?

At least twice that. Some sort of cell leader, a bombmaker, logistics, bombers, etc...

Re: Brussels Rocked by Terrorist Attacks

#286

This is a mess larger than I can comprehend, with scores of innocent dead. The spectrum of political issues this crosses is vast. We're talking nationalism, immigration, religion, extremism, surveillance, privacy, and war to name a few. The nuance required to understand and attack the big picture is almost nowhere to be found. I saw the French PM said something like "we're at war" - I'm not sure who they're at war wi…

I agree with your sentiment for the need of nuance. The attacks though, as suspected by many, do seem to have been to work of ISIS: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35869254

Re: Brussels Rocked by Terrorist Attacks

#287

This is a mess larger than I can comprehend, with scores of innocent dead. The spectrum of political issues this crosses is vast. We're talking nationalism, immigration, religion, extremism, surveillance, privacy, and war to name a few. The nuance required to understand and attack the big picture is almost nowhere to be found. I saw the French PM said something like "we're at war" - I'm not sure who they're at war wi…

ISIS just claimed responsibility for the attacks.

Re: Brussels Rocked by Terrorist Attacks

#288

This is a mess larger than I can comprehend, with scores of innocent dead. The spectrum of political issues this crosses is vast. We're talking nationalism, immigration, religion, extremism, surveillance, privacy, and war to name a few. The nuance required to understand and attack the big picture is almost nowhere to be found. I saw the French PM said something like "we're at war" - I'm not sure who they're at war wi…

ISIS just claimed responsibility for the attacks.

I can't edit my post above anymore, but I do stand corrected.

Re: Brussels Rocked by Terrorist Attacks

#289
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

France has had the most extensive surveillance system in continental Europe for over a decade and it has helped roundabout nothing.

Indeed. It seems to be the prevalent opinion among European counter-terrorism experts that the most effective policies are: - Bringing more eyes and ears in the form of social workers and community policemen in problematic neighborhoods. - Provide better education/work opportunities for immigrants. - Better cooperation between municipalities and Muslim organisations/mosques. - Deradicalization programs. Of course, im…

>"Of course, implementing such policies takes time and it's much more popular to present the 'easy solutions' (more surveillance, closing borders, etc.)."

Meanwhile, people are dying. That is exactly how some people see it, and exactly how I see it. I'm not emotional, I'm logical, and I expect government to protect us from evil individuals/groups. Arguably, it's not there to foster some sort of "long-term" sustainable co-existence between different cultures.

First, you establish security and root out potential problem groups. And once that's happened, and you have almost non-existent danger to the local populace, then you can start worrying about integration and grey-goals such as "peaceful coexistence" and "de-radicalization". And I don't say that as a means to single-out immigrants, or foreign groups. This reasoning should apply just as much to dangerous elements that are within, and part of society currently.

Re: Brussels Rocked by Terrorist Attacks

#290

What I find reassuring in the midst of this tragic mayhem however, is how little actual damage the terrorists could do. They had explosives, weapons, the resolve to sacrifice themselves and tried their best to do as much damage as possible. And they managed to to kill less than 30 people (provisional count). Of course every death that brought on by this fanatic mob is too much, but we should keep our perspective. A b…

> And they managed to to kill less than 30 people (provisional count).

It is almost trivial to be an effective terrorist if body count is what you're optimizing for. In Baghdad they blew a fuel tanker sky high, the blast rattled my windows so hard across the city that I thought we were the ones under attack.

I have wondered (ever since it was my job to think like a guerrilla fighter) why terrorists don't do similar things in the US or other countries. How many fuel tankers are there in the US? How hard would it be to GTA one of them and drive it into a dense gathering of people? How hard would it be to re-enact the CoD MW2 airport scene?

Perhaps it is symbolism not body counts they seek? After all the DC sniper effectively terrorized three states with a rifle.

In the infantry nothing is scarier than land mines and snipers.

All I know is surveillance can't stop every tanker or lone gunman. It's just too easy to do these kinds of things without the use of anything with a significant RF signature.

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